Why are some meats ok to eat raw?

tonyso · 17th February 2007, 6:26 PM

I am just wondering, why eatting not 100% cooked chicken will give you a decent chance to be on the way to the hospital in an ambulance, however, beef, lamb, kangaroo meet can eat pretty raw.

What's the difference there? why chicken is so deadly but most other meat can be eatten raw? They are all animal and they don't give a damn about hygiene when they alive, at least not that I noticed of anyway. So why the deadly bacterias don't grow or exist in meat other than chicken?

BC% · 18th February 2007, 12:49 AM

It's mainly to do with the way the meat is originally butchered up + the size of the animals in question.

With all types of meat bacteria lives on the surface. To kill them you pan fry them, steam them, etc. With cow/pig products, they tend to be generally big cuts so heating the surface at the minimum is all that's required, and eating medium-rare cuts of steak is fine.

With birds however, due to the lack of surface area (i.e. lack of big cuts) + the way they're handled in the abattoir there is a lot more chance of bacterial cross contamination between all the parts. Thus bacteria has the chance to multiply quicker in chicken, which is why it's always recommended to cook them to 60 degrees celsius when reheating, or throw them out after 1-2 days.

AlexMJ · 22nd February 2007, 9:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyso

They are all animal and they don't give a damn about hygiene when they alive

I always find it amusing how some people believe there is some correlation between the external cleanliness of an animal and how clean its meat is

HappymaN · 22nd February 2007, 1:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BC%

It's mainly to do with the way the meat is originally butchered up + the size of the animals in question.

With all types of meat bacteria lives on the surface. To kill them you pan fry them, steam them, etc. With cow/pig products, they tend to be generally big cuts so heating the surface at the minimum is all that's required, and eating medium-rare cuts of steak is fine.

With birds however, due to the lack of surface area (i.e. lack of big cuts) + the way they're handled in the abattoir there is a lot more chance of bacterial cross contamination between all the parts. Thus bacteria has the chance to multiply quicker in chicken, which is why it's always recommended to cook them to 60 degrees celsius when reheating, or throw them out after 1-2 days.

I think you're a little mistaken mate.
It has more to do with what bacteria are resident within that type of meat. Chicken is notorious for harbouring Campylobacter.

Wink · 22nd February 2007, 4:55 PM

Pork must also be fully cooked before consumption

pugsley · 22nd February 2007, 7:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappymaN

I think you're a little mistaken mate.
It has more to do with what bacteria are resident within that type of meat. Chicken is notorious for harbouring Campylobacter.

Spot on, it has nothing to do with the size of the animal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wink

Pork must also be fully cooked before consumption

A perfect example, if you dont cook pork properly you can get all sorts of worms/parasites setting up shop in your stomach and intestines.

Stonewall · 22nd February 2007, 7:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pugsley

Spot on, it has nothing to do with the size of the animal.A perfect example, if you dont cook pork properly you can get all sorts of worms/parasites setting up shop in your stomach and intestines.

The risk of this in Australia is incredibly low. The parasite you are referring to is Trichinosis. I don't believe there have been any cases in Australia.

Quote:

Trichinosis, also called trichinellosis, or trichiniasis, is a parasitic disease caused by eating raw or undercooked pork and wild game products infected with the larvae of a species of roundworm Trichinella spiralis, commonly called the trichina worm. The few cases in the United States are mostly the result of eating undercooked game or home reared pigs. It is most common in the developing world and where pigs are commonly fed raw garbage.

I can't think of the name of the chef on Channel ten during the day, but he actually advocates keeping pork a little bit pink for better flavour.

Stonewall

caspian · 22nd February 2007, 9:28 PM

chefs are concerned primarily with taste, texture, appearance etc - which is why they will happily lob a weeks's worth of salt/cream etc into a single dish. to them, performance is everything, practicality be damned.

I do not mean this as a criticism of chefs in the slightest, and nor do I mean to imply that they are in any way deliberately unsafe, but to them if it tastes better cooked 17.5% less than fully than that's how much it gets - all other considerations be damned.

Willybomb · 22nd February 2007, 9:34 PM

As far as pork and parasites are concerned, I'd certainly be cooking feral pig for a long time...

tellytubby · 23rd February 2007, 1:48 PM

On sunrise this morning a microbiologist answered this question.

He said chicken, pork and to some degree fish, the bacteria are all through the meat, so it has to be cooked all the way through to kill them. To test if it is cooked, put a skewer in and note the colour of the juices that come out.

For red meat, the bacteria stays more on the outside of the meat, so it just has to be cooked on the outside.

He talked about leftovers too - you should reheat them quicky and very hot (microwave) and only reheat once. Store them up well sealed in the fridge, and make sure your fridge is cold.

He also said that washing vegetables is important, and that water is sufficient for the job to get germs from handling and pesticides.

hlokk · 23rd February 2007, 3:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tellytubby

He said chicken, pork and to some degree fish, the bacteria are all through the meat, so it has to be cooked all the way through to kill them. To test if it is cooked, put a skewer in and note the colour of the juices that come out.

What about sashimi fish. I always assumed that eating raw meat is fine as long as its fresh, but most of the stuff we would get is obviously more than several hours old. I always thought salmonella was the danger with chicken? I find it odd that any bacteria would be actually IN the meat naturally, anyone got any references?

DavoRulz · 23rd February 2007, 5:38 PM

As far as I'm concerned it's NEVER ok to eat any meat raw. I eat meat only after it's been chargrilled/smoked/processed. None of this raw and still bleedin shit.

fokkie. · 23rd February 2007, 9:57 PM

what about carpacios(sp?) and stuf......
arent they like raw meat dishes with just lemon juice or something to slightly cure it? i think they were made of beef or pork sometimes and people eat that..

Kindros · 23rd February 2007, 10:47 PM

Your Sashimi fish, which is usually Tuna, has a very meaty texture and make-up, and is very much like your red meat grain. It is always kept very cold o preserve its freshness, which will put bacteria on hold for spreading. Generally the way the whole tuna is handled also kind of preserves its integrity, like its gut cavity doesn't really need to be opened to get to its meat.

Capachio is made from your veal/beef/cow/venison which grains are also very tight packed. Their carcass can generally be hung for a few weeks depending on the size of the beast before it will start to go "off". The first things the bacteria generally attack is the fat in the animal, as it helps them to breed. It's also why a good butcher will hang a beef carcass for up to 3 weeks before butchering it for the public. It makes for a more tender serve, and a wider grain.

Julz · 23rd February 2007, 10:48 PM

chinese say if you eat raw pork you'll go mad.

17th February 2007, 6:26 PM	#1
tonyso Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Melbourne Posts: 182	Why are some meats ok to eat raw? I am just wondering, why eatting not 100% cooked chicken will give you a decent chance to be on the way to the hospital in an ambulance, however, beef, lamb, kangaroo meet can eat pretty raw. What's the difference there? why chicken is so deadly but most other meat can be eatten raw? They are all animal and they don't give a damn about hygiene when they alive, at least not that I noticed of anyway. So why the deadly bacterias don't grow or exist in meat other than chicken?

18th February 2007, 12:49 AM	#2
BC% Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Melbourne Posts: 287	It's mainly to do with the way the meat is originally butchered up + the size of the animals in question. With all types of meat bacteria lives on the surface. To kill them you pan fry them, steam them, etc. With cow/pig products, they tend to be generally big cuts so heating the surface at the minimum is all that's required, and eating medium-rare cuts of steak is fine. With birds however, due to the lack of surface area (i.e. lack of big cuts) + the way they're handled in the abattoir there is a lot more chance of bacterial cross contamination between all the parts. Thus bacteria has the chance to multiply quicker in chicken, which is why it's always recommended to cook them to 60 degrees celsius when reheating, or throw them out after 1-2 days. __________________ Motorola V-Club Member - V3 (Razr)

22nd February 2007, 4:55 PM	#5
Wink Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hills District NSW Posts: 11,159	Pork must also be fully cooked before consumption __________________ Alienware X51 (i7) \| Sony KDL-32CX520 \| MS Arc Keyboard \| Razer Mamba 4G \| Logitech G25 \| Logitech Z623 \| Sony PS3 Slim \| Apple iPod 5G 30GB \| Apple iPhone 5 \| Apple iPad 2 \| Canon Powershot S90 \| 2010 Lexus IS-F \|

22nd February 2007, 9:28 PM	#8
caspian Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Melbourne Posts: 6,124	chefs are concerned primarily with taste, texture, appearance etc - which is why they will happily lob a weeks's worth of salt/cream etc into a single dish. to them, performance is everything, practicality be damned. I do not mean this as a criticism of chefs in the slightest, and nor do I mean to imply that they are in any way deliberately unsafe, but to them if it tastes better cooked 17.5% less than fully than that's how much it gets - all other considerations be damned. __________________ I'm responsible for what I say. I'm not responsible for what you understand.

22nd February 2007, 9:34 PM	#9
Willybomb Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Ballarat Posts: 6,270	As far as pork and parasites are concerned, I'd certainly be cooking feral pig for a long time... __________________ Rockstarguitar - Guitar lessons in the Ballarat area Looking to teach or learn guitar? Then you need my book! 30+ successful trades and counting Offical OCAU Musicians Guild Member #15 OCAU Guitar Players club

23rd February 2007, 1:48 PM	#10
tellytubby Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Brisbane Posts: 520	On sunrise this morning a microbiologist answered this question. He said chicken, pork and to some degree fish, the bacteria are all through the meat, so it has to be cooked all the way through to kill them. To test if it is cooked, put a skewer in and note the colour of the juices that come out. For red meat, the bacteria stays more on the outside of the meat, so it just has to be cooked on the outside. He talked about leftovers too - you should reheat them quicky and very hot (microwave) and only reheat once. Store them up well sealed in the fridge, and make sure your fridge is cold. He also said that washing vegetables is important, and that water is sufficient for the job to get germs from handling and pesticides. __________________ OCAU Pink Floyd Fan #53 \| MiGorengNoodleClubMember#25\|$$ tellytubby's Finance links $$

23rd February 2007, 5:38 PM	#12
DavoRulz (Banned or Deleted) Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Your House Posts: 3,983	As far as I'm concerned it's NEVER ok to eat any meat raw. I eat meat only after it's been chargrilled/smoked/processed. None of this raw and still bleedin shit.

23rd February 2007, 9:57 PM	#13
fokkie. Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Sydney, NSW Posts: 24	what about carpacios(sp?) and stuf...... arent they like raw meat dishes with just lemon juice or something to slightly cure it? i think they were made of beef or pork sometimes and people eat that..

23rd February 2007, 10:47 PM	#14
Kindros Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Maitland, NSW Posts: 844	Your Sashimi fish, which is usually Tuna, has a very meaty texture and make-up, and is very much like your red meat grain. It is always kept very cold o preserve its freshness, which will put bacteria on hold for spreading. Generally the way the whole tuna is handled also kind of preserves its integrity, like its gut cavity doesn't really need to be opened to get to its meat. Capachio is made from your veal/beef/cow/venison which grains are also very tight packed. Their carcass can generally be hung for a few weeks depending on the size of the beast before it will start to go "off". The first things the bacteria generally attack is the fat in the animal, as it helps them to breed. It's also why a good butcher will hang a beef carcass for up to 3 weeks before butchering it for the public. It makes for a more tender serve, and a wider grain. __________________ User Offline Coito ergo sum Veni, Vidi, Vici

23rd February 2007, 10:48 PM	#15
Julz Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Posts: 2,707	chinese say if you eat raw pork you'll go mad. __________________ Canon 500D/Kiss X3 User, Tamron 17-50mm f2.8, Canon 50mm f1.8, Sigma 50-150mm F2.8 Mitsubishi Ralli////////art Colt Version-R Owner FOR SALE: My ebay stuff