Team Fortress 2

[Iro]

Originally Posted by Dangerous_Dave

I've had this happen to me too, my strategy I've thought of is to let them take it and then with 4 Heavy's + 4 medics and a couple of pyros for backup. Just block off the doors and mow them down so they can't move forward to your 2nd point, once they're dead, move forward and take the point, then block off the next doors.
I guess the difficult part to this strategy is actually convincing your team on a pub server to do it.

Yeah, see it doesn't happen on Well because you have set up time. Granary doesn't. I think this is the major issue, not so much the speed of scouts but the fact that Granary allows no time for the slower team members to get into position.

The only problem with that strategy is with a slow moving team of Heavy+Pyro, if they happen to leave the middle as you are fighting you will lose your 2nd cap and cannot get the middle.

If you have a scout rush on Well you have Demo, Soldier, Heavy already there to cut them down so the issue is not as large. It is mainly just Granary that suffers greatly from this.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by Rubberband

Bah, too many psychics on today to enjoy playing a spy.

Feh! You knifed me in the back more than once the other night.

[Rubberband]

Originally Posted by Thunder

Feh! You knifed me in the back more than once the other night.

But you still love me right?

[Dangerous_Dave]

Originally Posted by Iro

The only problem with that strategy is with a slow moving team of Heavy+Pyro, if they happen to leave the middle as you are fighting you will lose your 2nd cap and cannot get the middle.

That's why it is key to always block off the doors when both attacking and defending. Scouts can't get past 2 heavy's blocking a small area but they can run around you if you're out in the open. Let the pyro's cap the actual point and the heavy's and medics can run into place in the doorways between each wave of enemies. Staying alive and moving forward slowly at this pace is the key to defending scout rushes. If you die, they'll take your point so you gotta stay alive hence the 4 medics.

[rubba-chikin]

My main 2 complaints now are critical hits and the scouts power.

Critical hits just need to FOAD they take the skill out of a lot of firefights when suddenly 1 shotgun blast takes 90% of your health in 1 go... It makes the game more about luck rather than good strafe/jump evasions skills a lot of the time. So often I get mowed as a Solider on full health by 2 HWG rounds that are criticals. They seems to be granted to you a shitload more frequently when you are being healed by a medic too.

As many people have already said, scout = way overpowered. The scattergun will lay waste to a lot of the offensive classes and it just should NOT be that way.

Demoman v Scout - unless you have stickies already out and in their path I usually run because if you miss with your 4 pipes you are screwed.

Soldier v Scout - they move so fast its rare to hit them at anything other than inyourface range with your rockets. Shotgun v Scattergun dual the shotgun is way inferior.

It should be the scout running from these classes.

[sabretooth]

I disagree with everything you just posted. Maybe it's playing Q2 vs strafejumpers many years back, but scouts are not the problem you would have us believe.

I can't think of a single class that poses more problem than it should do.

I fully expect a scout to be able to kick my ass out in the open or if it gets a good scattergun shot on me close up. If a scout can't run around like an energiser bunny, then he's got nothin'.

[Frostyknight]

Scout can run around like an energiser bunny, sure... thats how the class is meant to play. But his weapon shouldnt be able to kill so easily. The idea of scout is that you use your speed to avoid combat altogether to complete the more imporant objectives. The only time the scouts weapon was important in previous TF games (when it was a nailgun) was to kill sentries from a distant location. Other than that you just used your speed and conc jumping (which is now double jumping) to avoid combat.

[M4g3X0r]

If you are a good solider it should be pretty easy to take down a scout... or any other class for that matter. I personally find the game to be very well balanced so far.

[Payload]

demo man is fine.. pyro is fine.. scout is fine..

demo man was over powered.. i still find it quite easy to make it to the top of the score board just that you cant run around so much.. gotta play defensive with your sticky bombs.. but with a good settup on a doorway you can take out like 5 people. The stickes own engi settups too. Rockets and normal bombs give them too much time to repair.. stick 4 or 5 stickes at their feet and destroy them and everything they have built in 1 shot.

I still find it hard to do well with pyro.. can only manage to get to the middle of the feild in any map.. maybey i just suck at pyro.

Scout isnt really OP.. can get to the top easy enough but a heavy for example will own you, and turrets take you down before you even notice they are shooting you. Engi shouldnt be having a shotgun battle with a scout.. thats why you have turrets. If their shotty was weaker they'd never get a kill before they die.

Thats how i feel about it anyway. Sometimes a class may seem overpowered but for every class there is a counter class to some extent that can take it down without a hit of trouble. Its just that people dont always use the abilities properly because it becomes a solo match while a number of classes work best as a team. eg. medics need a heavy, pyro's go well with a heavy or a sniper, scout is pretty good with a soldier or demo man. Basically you are teaming up with someone that will cover your weakness' and you do the same for them.

Overall quite happy with the class balance actually. Although something i would like to see is equipment loadout options. Like give an option between 2 sets of weps which give you a different main or secondary wep to help classes be viable on all maps. eg. pyro's are just terrible on some maps because there is too much ranged combat... snipers have a similar problem on some of the more confined maps. Could solve this by maybey giving snipers a rifle with the same power and requires you to stand still to get the powerup or something like that but doesnt have a scope which you could use for more confined spaces. Pyro's could get maybey an SMG or pistol to help with their range.. or a fire extinguisher that leaves a cloud smoke gren style and puts out flames.. just some ideas.

[nickowns]

Scout's Scatter can only do full damage if they are close up (~125 dmg without crit). You'll need to get shot 3 times really close up to get killed by a scout if you are a soldier.

I think that's fair enough.

[AMD64]

Originally Posted by Frostyknight

Scout can run around like an energiser bunny, sure... thats how the class is meant to play. But his weapon shouldnt be able to kill so easily. The idea of scout is that you use your speed to avoid combat altogether to complete the more imporant objectives. The only time the scouts weapon was important in previous TF games (when it was a nailgun) was to kill sentries from a distant location. Other than that you just used your speed and conc jumping (which is now double jumping) to avoid combat.

I find that as a scout I can take down most heavies pretty easily.

[PeppeX]

i feel that all the classes are pretty balanced. I guess that some people are better with a speciafic class and therefore they will own you

[M4g3X0r]

Originally Posted by Payload

stuff

Ever heard of Custom TF??? That was awesome back in the day....

[rubba-chikin]

I based my opinion from the point of view MYSELF playing scout, not getting pwned by scouts. I find it far too easy to dispatch offensive classes and I don't think it should be this way.

Played as a team of 2 or more scouts they will just demolish any lone class before they even get a second shot off.

Often with a critical hit you can kill an enemy with 1 shot of the scattergun and that is totally and utterly wrong for the class. No way in hell should a scout be able to get 1 hit kills.

Scouts are supposed to be weak, but ideal for using their speed and evasive properties to get past the front line and cap the next point/nick the intelligence before anyone figures out what is happening.

Currently they are this plus too much more.

Pyros may be the scouts nemesis but if you have enough room with the current class spec the scout will win 9/10 times as you can just keep out of range of the flame and scattergun them to death - again regular shotgun can't compete with it.

[Dangerous_Dave]

Originally Posted by rubba-chikin

Played as a team of 2 or more scouts they will just demolish any lone class before they even get a second shot off.
.

But this is the same with heavy/medic. If you get two pairs of this combo they can walk up either side of the map and take out any scout trying to get through narrow places. People will eventually learn that strength comes in numbers, and when you get a bunch of the same classes working together, stuff happens.
So if there's a 6 person scout rush? then your team needs to Heavy x4 plus 2 medics all going down left and right sides of the map.