RAID 0 Guide: Set-up, OS installation, and Optimization - Page 8

chainbolt · 20th August 2002, 7:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bion1c
OK, I ran into a few problems using this guide .. thought it might be useful to share the info:

Chainbolt doesn't mention that Win2k won't defragment any NTFS volumes with a cluster size greater than the default (4k). Don't think you can use a 3rd party tool to get around this either - I tried quite a few with no success. I got the impression talking to people that it was a limitation of the file system but I don't think this is the case.

There's an additional HDD in my system set aside from the RAID array (primarily for backups) that has a 4 GB partition I can use to test OS's. I installed WinXP on this to see if it could defragment my RAID volumes. It could, which means that its the Win2k OS itself that has a problem. Incidentally, after defragmenting the system drive on the RAID array, Win2k was quite happy to boot to it, so no changes were made to file system..

Quite surprising that MS hasn't fixed this in a service pack actually.

Anyway .. just something to watch out for ..

The story is a little different: NT, W2K and XP are all using slightly different versions of NTFS. In W2K you can indeed not defrag when the cluster size is over 4 K. In XP you can. This is nothing you could "fix" with the Service Pack, it's inherent.

Bion1c · 20th August 2002, 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chainbolt

The story is a little different: NT, W2K and XP are all using slightly different versions of NTFS. In W2K you can indeed not defrag when the cluster size is over 4 K. In XP you can. This is nothing you could "fix" with the Service Pack, it's inherent.

My understanding was that NT4 uses NTFS v4.0, and W2k uses NTFS 5.0 but I haven't seen anything about WinXP using a different format.

If this is the case though, how come Win2k is able to read the volume after WinXP defragmented it? Surely if its a file system problem (not OS related) then if WinXP was able to defrag the volume, it would have had to update it - and hence render it incompatible with Win2k. This did not occur..

chainbolt · 20th August 2002, 8:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bion1c

My understanding was that NT4 uses NTFS v4.0, and W2k uses NTFS 5.0 but I haven't seen anything about WinXP using a different format.

If this is the case though, how come Win2k is able to read the volume after WinXP defragmented it? Surely if its a file system problem (not OS related) then if WinXP was able to defrag the volume, it would have had to update it - and hence render it incompatible with Win2k. This did not occur..

bionic: it's a fact that in W2K you can NOT defrag with the build in defragger over 4 K, and in XP you can. I don't know much about NTFS but I clearly remember that when XP was introduced, MS mentioned that it comes with an updated NTFS version. It might be unrelated though and all a matter of the STOOPID defragger
in W2K, because with Norton Speed Disk you can defragg W2K with more than 4 K clusters.

BBB · 20th August 2002, 8:17 PM

Thanks Chainbolt, will try again

AKKO-XP · 25th August 2002, 10:55 PM

Thanks Chainy - I'm now running Win2k SP3 with RAID 0 setup exactly how you described (16/16) using a 1200A Adaptec IDE RAID Card with two 40GB WD drives (7,200RPM, ATA 100, 2MB Cache) and all is running very sweet indeed!

SiSoftware Sandra 2002 Pro SP1 Benchmark Score - 76050
http://www.westnet.com.au/akko81/akko-after4.jpg

Akko.

BBB · 27th August 2002, 8:38 AM

Well, what can I say, but I've had no joy at all with the 16k...

Tried to install W2K at least 10 times, no luck.

I made sure I hit F6 and it did ask for the floppy each time, but it still comes up Boot Disk Unavailable.

Finally found another HDD and got W2K installed and somehow set up the RAID with 16k (in BIOS) but when I did the reformat / partition and then went to install W2K on it it said it was unformatted or damaged and refused to install.......not happy

Bion1c · 28th August 2002, 2:22 PM

What hardware are you using?

BBB · 28th August 2002, 2:36 PM

Thunderbird 1200 'C' / KT7A RAID v1.0 / 512 Crucial CAS 2 / 2 x Quantum Fireball LM 15G 7200/ LG 24x10x40 CDRW / GF3 TD.

What else?

Bion1c · 28th August 2002, 5:38 PM

Can i have your ram? Call it a consultant fee .. hehe j/k

(disclaimer: I've never tried using an onboard RAID solution, since I change motherboards so frequently. PCI cards all the way for me)

OK - so you're trying to run the 2 Quantum drives off the onboard IDE raid controller? What brand chipset is it? Highpoint or Promise? Also what revision?

BBB · 29th August 2002, 7:21 AM

HighPoint HPT370 but I don't know what revision, how do you find that?

chainbolt · 29th August 2002, 2:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BBB
HighPoint HPT370 but I don't know what revision, how do you find that?

There are NO revisions for the HPT 370 controller chip. What you have are BIOS revisions for the chip. When you boot, you can see the BIOS revision, it's briefly displayed.

BBB · 29th August 2002, 3:12 PM

OK, well when I next do a reboot I will keep an eye out for it.

Nasti · 31st August 2002, 3:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AKKO-XP
Thanks Chainy - I'm now running Win2k SP3 with RAID 0 setup exactly how you described (16/16) using a 1200A Adaptec IDE RAID Card with two 40GB WD drives (7,200RPM, ATA 100, 2MB Cache) and all is running very sweet indeed!

SiSoftware Sandra 2002 Pro SP1 Benchmark Score - 76050
http://www.westnet.com.au/akko81/akko-after4.jpg

Akko.

Damn AKKO!
They are excellent scores i assume?
I get 36000s with my two 30GB AS Fireball's in my KT7A. Today i bought my new KX7-333r! So we'll see how things go. I will have the same OS as you. One more thing, did u use NTFS or FAT?
Im guessing NTFS because you say "exactly how you described" and chainy reccommended NTFS.

Whisper · 4th September 2002, 11:12 AM

Chainy please help me.

I need to know what the Stripe sizes are for a Promise Lite Controller, since the Controller setup does not indicate the actual stripe size in KB, just the potential uses. i.e.

File Server
Desktop
AV Editing

Those are the 3 options, but no mention of stripe size anywhere in the Controlers BIOS setup program.

BBB · 5th September 2002, 7:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chainbolt

There are NO revisions for the HPT 370 controller chip. What you have are BIOS revisions for the chip. When you boot, you can see the BIOS revision, it's briefly displayed.

Is it the series of letters and numbers at the bottom of the screen at boot?

If so it ends in 3R

I suppose the whole number is important?

25th August 2002, 10:55 PM	#110
AKKO-XP Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Perth, WA Posts: 80	Thanks Chainy - I'm now running Win2k SP3 with RAID 0 setup exactly how you described (16/16) using a 1200A Adaptec IDE RAID Card with two 40GB WD drives (7,200RPM, ATA 100, 2MB Cache) and all is running very sweet indeed! SiSoftware Sandra 2002 Pro SP1 Benchmark Score - 76050 http://www.westnet.com.au/akko81/akko-after4.jpg Akko. Last edited by AKKO-XP; 31st August 2002 at 12:18 PM.

20th August 2002, 8:17 PM	#109
BBB Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Up the road apiece... Posts: 440	Thanks Chainbolt, will try again

27th August 2002, 8:38 AM	#111
BBB Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Up the road apiece... Posts: 440	Well, what can I say, but I've had no joy at all with the 16k... Tried to install W2K at least 10 times, no luck. I made sure I hit F6 and it did ask for the floppy each time, but it still comes up Boot Disk Unavailable. Finally found another HDD and got W2K installed and somehow set up the RAID with 16k (in BIOS) but when I did the reformat / partition and then went to install W2K on it it said it was unformatted or damaged and refused to install.......not happy

28th August 2002, 2:22 PM	#112
Bion1c Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,034	What hardware are you using?

28th August 2002, 2:36 PM	#113
BBB Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Up the road apiece... Posts: 440	Thunderbird 1200 'C' / KT7A RAID v1.0 / 512 Crucial CAS 2 / 2 x Quantum Fireball LM 15G 7200/ LG 24x10x40 CDRW / GF3 TD. What else?

28th August 2002, 5:38 PM	#114
Bion1c Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,034	Can i have your ram? Call it a consultant fee .. hehe j/k (disclaimer: I've never tried using an onboard RAID solution, since I change motherboards so frequently. PCI cards all the way for me) OK - so you're trying to run the 2 Quantum drives off the onboard IDE raid controller? What brand chipset is it? Highpoint or Promise? Also what revision?

29th August 2002, 7:21 AM	#115
BBB Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Up the road apiece... Posts: 440	HighPoint HPT370 but I don't know what revision, how do you find that?

29th August 2002, 3:12 PM	#117
BBB Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Up the road apiece... Posts: 440	OK, well when I next do a reboot I will keep an eye out for it.