General Aquarium Talk - Page 202

shon982 · 11th June 2011, 4:15 PM

What fish do you want to keep?
Get rid of the filtration it has and go canister
Clean out the tank, start fresh

If you want plants then sand won't work

This is what the white sand from bunnings is like

Please excuse the cloudiness, it comes from just adding the sand

Kosti · 11th June 2011, 4:31 PM

White sand @ Bunnings, [play sand] - sweet!

I'm going to have Cichlids, no plants I've upgraded from this tank in this thread

HERE

Have looked @ alternative pumps, as mine that's stuff is rated @ FLmax:800L/H

Ive found a few that look similar but was thinking of getting a higher flow rate, but not sure if it will overflow. A canister would be ok as I've rebuilt a 1200 from various broken ones and now have a full working canister, but looking at the OEM built in one, it does appear to have more surface area?

I guess I could make some opening for the canister, still trying to decide which way to go

Thanks for the suggestions

Dorz · 12th June 2011, 1:17 AM

bit of an updated photo of the marine tank

waiting for more parts to arrive (dosing pumps woo!)

0M39A_1337 · 12th June 2011, 3:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shon982

What fish do you want to keep?
Get rid of the filtration it has and go canister
Clean out the tank, start fresh

If you want plants then sand won't work

This is what the white sand from bunnings is like

Please excuse the cloudiness, it comes from just adding the sand
image

Nice bembas

shon982 · 12th June 2011, 9:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0M39A_1337

Nice bembas

Thanks

They were a great breeding colony! but I've moved onto the rarer Tanganyikans... featherfins and sandsifters

Vassili · 12th June 2011, 9:36 AM

Looking good Dorz. The rock against the glass doesnt annoy you?

Kosti · 13th June 2011, 11:59 AM

Substrate - how crucial is it?

Can I use plastic or glass or some synthetic type , does it have to be coral, crushed up shells, rock, pebble, sand etc?

Also with substrate, does colour matter to fish and their behaviour as I've read darker substrate doesn't bring out the nice colours of say Cichlids?

shon982 · 13th June 2011, 12:57 PM

I'd say it's crucial

Cichlids love to pick it up, throw it around, same make nests from it etc.
Wouldn't want to use glass, plastic or some clown vomit colour gravel
Imagine a mouth full of glass in the cichlids mouth when it wants to munch on it to help with digestion
I'd say go with sand and you'll see more interesting behaviour with them

As for colour, go with black, white or browny colour (river sand)
Black brings out their colours due to the contrast
White washes out the fish because they try to blend in but it's not noticeable that much
Or river sand provides a good in between solution but it does look dirty

I like using white sand because it looks more like the ocean

japes · 13th June 2011, 1:30 PM

Depends what fish and sand colour. Keeping naturally bright fish on a dark substrate will cause a degree of 'natural' re-colouration as they will adjust their colours for camouflage on the darker substrate. In many South American species this will result in barring and dark patches just behind the gills. Vice versa for dark fish over white sand, although many species which have evolved living on or near white sand, such as Shon's Tropheus, will show natural colour over white even though they're a primarily black fish.

Geophagus (a naturally bright fish, silver body) on bright white sand will live with their natural colouration - over dark sand they will show permanent barring and a generally darker body which is not indicative of what they really look like. There's not many fish I can think of that don't love a fine sand, and many species need it. Most Cichlids will sift through it for food throughout the day, which is natural and healthy behaviour.

You will read instances where people complain about it wrecking filters, behing annoying to clean, etc. As an experienced cleaner of both, let me clear a few things up in this misinformed arena:

- Sand is easier to clean than gravel, or equally difficult at worst. Exactly the same equipment (Gravel Vacuum), but using a gravel vac above the surface of the sand without digging it in, as all waste on sand sits on the surface, unlike gravel. You will eventually suck a bit up each waterchange.

- Sand is not dirty. If you've just stirred around a substrate in any tank, you're going to have waterborne detritus floating around for roughly a 24 hour period. It needs a more solid washout prior to introduction but thats an extra half an hours work at worst.

- Sand does not wreck filters if you set them up properly, which is easy. Have filter intakes at least 10cm, preferably more above the surface of your substrate, and make sure you run a proper arrangement of mechanical foam filtration so that any sand that does get sucked up gets stuck in the bowels of your filter and can't have at your impeller.

$8 for a 20kg bag at Bunnings makes it an inexpensive decision too.

shon982 · 13th June 2011, 1:37 PM

It's $5 at my local bunnings

n3wbi379 · 13th June 2011, 2:35 PM

I had black gravel, i found that my cichlids went to dark, example, my electric yellows went way to dark with black through the body.

Swapped over to white sand and they changed, very bright compared to the black gravel.

0M39A_1337 · 13th June 2011, 3:54 PM

I really need to get motivated enough to change my substrate to sand. Currently have a mix of shell grit and small smooth gravel. Shell grit is great for helping to buffer the water, but its a bit large for my fish to sift through like they would sand.

Kosti · 13th June 2011, 4:26 PM

After speaking to a few people on this today, most say black brings out colours of any fish due to the substrate being dark.

However I don't want my electric yellow to start baring up because it's trying to blend in to a black sand.

I've also being reading about Pool Filter Sand (PFS), anyone tried it, i've had a bucket of it for a few weeks, seems ok but again, want to hear form others if they have used it or seen PFS.

Sadly didn't get a chance to hit Bunnings today, but will go check out what they have for sand.

I have also been looking at different substrate to use for more of a show tank something like glass beads or crystal rounded beads?

n3wbi379 · 13th June 2011, 5:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0M39A_1337

I really need to get motivated enough to change my substrate to sand. Currently have a mix of shell grit and small smooth gravel. Shell grit is great for helping to buffer the water, but its a bit large for my fish to sift through like they would sand.

Its really not bad as u think.
I did my tank in about a hr.
Thought it would be allot harder then it really was.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kosti

I have also been looking at different substrate to use for more of a show tank something like glass beads or crystal rounded beads?

Ur jokinmg, right????????

0M39A_1337 · 13th June 2011, 6:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n3wbi379

Its really not bad as u think.
I did my tank in about a hr.
Thought it would be allot harder then it really was.

i know, like i said, just need to get motivated. The substrate is fine how it is atm, I just think me, and more importantly, the fish would enjoy sand more.

11th June 2011, 4:15 PM	#3016
shon982 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brisbane, Cashmere Posts: 314	What fish do you want to keep? Get rid of the filtration it has and go canister Clean out the tank, start fresh If you want plants then sand won't work This is what the white sand from bunnings is like Please excuse the cloudiness, it comes from just adding the sand __________________ .

11th June 2011, 4:31 PM	#3017
Kosti Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 657	White sand @ Bunnings, [play sand] - sweet! I'm going to have Cichlids, no plants I've upgraded from this tank in this thread HERE Have looked @ alternative pumps, as mine that's stuff is rated @ FLmax:800L/H Ive found a few that look similar but was thinking of getting a higher flow rate, but not sure if it will overflow. A canister would be ok as I've rebuilt a 1200 from various broken ones and now have a full working canister, but looking at the OEM built in one, it does appear to have more surface area? I guess I could make some opening for the canister, still trying to decide which way to go Thanks for the suggestions __________________ Post added by using recycled electrons Build Log - Yellow Jacket WTB - Pokemon Cards WTB - WATERCOOL HEATKILLER GPU-X³ 79X0 Ni-Bl & Backing Plate

13th June 2011, 11:59 AM	#3022
Kosti Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 657	Substrate - how crucial is it? Can I use plastic or glass or some synthetic type , does it have to be coral, crushed up shells, rock, pebble, sand etc? Also with substrate, does colour matter to fish and their behaviour as I've read darker substrate doesn't bring out the nice colours of say Cichlids? __________________ Post added by using recycled electrons Build Log - Yellow Jacket WTB - Pokemon Cards WTB - WATERCOOL HEATKILLER GPU-X³ 79X0 Ni-Bl & Backing Plate

13th June 2011, 12:57 PM	#3023
shon982 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brisbane, Cashmere Posts: 314	I'd say it's crucial Cichlids love to pick it up, throw it around, same make nests from it etc. Wouldn't want to use glass, plastic or some clown vomit colour gravel Imagine a mouth full of glass in the cichlids mouth when it wants to munch on it to help with digestion I'd say go with sand and you'll see more interesting behaviour with them As for colour, go with black, white or browny colour (river sand) Black brings out their colours due to the contrast White washes out the fish because they try to blend in but it's not noticeable that much Or river sand provides a good in between solution but it does look dirty I like using white sand because it looks more like the ocean __________________ .

13th June 2011, 1:30 PM	#3024
japes Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD Posts: 4,110	Depends what fish and sand colour. Keeping naturally bright fish on a dark substrate will cause a degree of 'natural' re-colouration as they will adjust their colours for camouflage on the darker substrate. In many South American species this will result in barring and dark patches just behind the gills. Vice versa for dark fish over white sand, although many species which have evolved living on or near white sand, such as Shon's Tropheus, will show natural colour over white even though they're a primarily black fish. Geophagus (a naturally bright fish, silver body) on bright white sand will live with their natural colouration - over dark sand they will show permanent barring and a generally darker body which is not indicative of what they really look like. There's not many fish I can think of that don't love a fine sand, and many species need it. Most Cichlids will sift through it for food throughout the day, which is natural and healthy behaviour. You will read instances where people complain about it wrecking filters, behing annoying to clean, etc. As an experienced cleaner of both, let me clear a few things up in this misinformed arena: - Sand is easier to clean than gravel, or equally difficult at worst. Exactly the same equipment (Gravel Vacuum), but using a gravel vac above the surface of the sand without digging it in, as all waste on sand sits on the surface, unlike gravel. You will eventually suck a bit up each waterchange. - Sand is not dirty. If you've just stirred around a substrate in any tank, you're going to have waterborne detritus floating around for roughly a 24 hour period. It needs a more solid washout prior to introduction but thats an extra half an hours work at worst. - Sand does not wreck filters if you set them up properly, which is easy. Have filter intakes at least 10cm, preferably more above the surface of your substrate, and make sure you run a proper arrangement of mechanical foam filtration so that any sand that does get sucked up gets stuck in the bowels of your filter and can't have at your impeller. $8 for a 20kg bag at Bunnings makes it an inexpensive decision too. __________________ Biotope Aquaria flickr: 815L Rio Madeira, Brazil Biotope + old setups. Hardware: Z77 Sabretooth, 3770K, GTX680, Xonar ST-X, Fractal Define XL, HX1050, Vertex II/IV. Peripherals: Das Professional, Sensei Pro, QcK+, ATH-AD700

12th June 2011, 9:36 AM	#3021
Vassili Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD Posts: 4,383	Looking good Dorz. The rock against the glass doesnt annoy you?

13th June 2011, 1:37 PM	#3025
shon982 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Brisbane, Cashmere Posts: 314	It's $5 at my local bunnings __________________ .

13th June 2011, 2:35 PM	#3026
n3wbi379 Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Melb Posts: 4,373	I had black gravel, i found that my cichlids went to dark, example, my electric yellows went way to dark with black through the body. Swapped over to white sand and they changed, very bright compared to the black gravel. __________________ One Awsome Day Out - CLICK

13th June 2011, 3:54 PM	#3027
0M39A_1337 Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Hobart, TAS Posts: 1,911	I really need to get motivated enough to change my substrate to sand. Currently have a mix of shell grit and small smooth gravel. Shell grit is great for helping to buffer the water, but its a bit large for my fish to sift through like they would sand. __________________ 30+ Successful Trades PROUD HOMEBREWER "Give a man a beer, he'll waste an hour. Teach a man to brew, he'll waste a lifetime."

13th June 2011, 4:26 PM	#3028
Kosti Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 657	After speaking to a few people on this today, most say black brings out colours of any fish due to the substrate being dark. However I don't want my electric yellow to start baring up because it's trying to blend in to a black sand. I've also being reading about Pool Filter Sand (PFS), anyone tried it, i've had a bucket of it for a few weeks, seems ok but again, want to hear form others if they have used it or seen PFS. Sadly didn't get a chance to hit Bunnings today, but will go check out what they have for sand. I have also been looking at different substrate to use for more of a show tank something like glass beads or crystal rounded beads? __________________ Post added by using recycled electrons Build Log - Yellow Jacket WTB - Pokemon Cards WTB - WATERCOOL HEATKILLER GPU-X³ 79X0 Ni-Bl & Backing Plate Last edited by Kosti; 13th June 2011 at 4:28 PM.