5-6K Budget On Amp + 5.1 - Good Brisbane Retailers??? -

[AaronFord]

Hey,

I'm looking at spending around 5-6k on an Amp and 5.1 speaker system. Just wondering what brands, and more importantly what specialised retailers
in or around Brisbane I should be checking out.

Another general question, can a system excel at 2 channel audio, 5.1 music and 5.1 movies? Or is a compromise going to have to happen?

Thanks

[yihfeng]

For the same price, a 2 channel system will always beat a 5.1 system in terms of sound quality.

There is a thread a little while ago: http://forums.overclockers.com.au/sh...d.php?t=689998

I posted this link: http://www.carltonaudiovisual.com.au/?q=node/view/881

While I understand that they are not in Brissy, I still think they are a good reference.

Cheers.

[Zee]

For the same price, a 2 channel system will always beat a 5.1 system in terms of sound quality.

Yeah, yeah, yeah but he wants 5.1, and the answer is yes, you can have good movie and music sound. You just need to put some work into finding an amp and speaker combo that work for you.

Just remember, there is music in movies too...

OP - You actually have a pretty fair budget, and should be expecting some good results for that sort of money.

Check out, perhaps, a Marantz for a surround receiver, and go from there.



Z...

[AaronFord]

ok thanks

Going this week for the first round of listening sessions

Ill check out some of the Marantz amps, any suggestions for speakers that should be on the demo'ing list?

[yihfeng]

Originally Posted by Zee

Yeah, yeah, yeah but he wants 5.1, and the answer is yes, you can have good movie and music sound. You just need to put some work into finding an amp and speaker combo that work for you.

Good is relative

Just remember, there is music in movies too...

But they are mostly badly recorded...

Source: http://www.whatmough.com.au/advice-stereo-theater.htm

Recording quality is another factor, which often favors CDs. There are many CDs engineered to sound very natural. These have usually been recorded using simple microphone techniques (two or three microphones) and a great deal of care. Such recordings usually appeal to audiophile music lovers who want to recreate a live concert as closely as possible in their lounge room. Unfortunately, few music DVDs are rarely recorded naturally. The engineers insist on recording instruments or vocals coming from the rear. When watching one of these, you see the band on the screen in front of you, yet hear sections of the band coming from behind, which can sound strange to say the least. They would sound far more natural if hall ambience and audience participation (clapping) came from the rear speakers, though this may not be as appealing to the masses.

Most films have some orchestral music in the soundtrack. When you hear orchestral music, close your eyes and concentrate on the sound. String tones invariably sound scratchy and strained and the bass usually lacks definition. Overall the sound lacks the smooth fluidity of a real orchestra.

[Zee]

Originally Posted by yihfeng

Good is relative

But they are mostly badly recorded...

Source: http://www.whatmough.com.au/advice-stereo-theater.htm

I shouldn't even start with this, it's a no win argument either way, but at least you have good taste in speakers.

OK, first there is this

few music DVDs are rarely recorded naturally.

So many music DVD's are often recorded naturally?

But, you missed my point. I said there was MUSIC in MOVIES. I never said to go buy DVD music recordings.

Until DVDs are recorded in a more natural way and there are many more music titles to choose from, stereo will not go away.

I agree totally with this.

In fact, I always insist that my clients listen to their CD's in stereo. I explain it to them and have them listen to a track in stereo and surround, and explain that CD's are not recorded for surround, but stereo, and sound best when listened to that way.

Admittedly, I missed the part in the OPs' post about 5.1 music, to which I usually recommend going with the CD and listening in 2 channel, the original question was whether a system can excel at 2ch and 5.1. The answer is yes. But it will cost more for the extra speakers and amps.

And $6k is a reasonable budget for GOOD quality sound.

As for speakers, Whatmough (as in a roundabout way mentioned by yihfeng), KEF, Boston Acoustics, B&W... There are lots of them. You need to listen for yourself. Apparently one OCAU'r listened to a set of $3.5k (I think?) NHTs' (Classic 4) and thought they sounded muddy.I've heard the same set and think they sound quite nice.

Admittedly, he was listening to Deep Purple, and had it cranked painfully high (according to the staff at the store), I was listening to a classical guitar solo.

Another example, a couple who were auditioning a pair of Monitor Audio RS1s', vs a pair of Legacy Studio HDs'.

Both agreed the Monitor Audio speakers were better for vocal and chamber music, they disagreed when it came to piano music. He thought the Legacy studios were worth the additional $2k for Piano music, she thought there was no difference.

Different speakers do suit different genres. Room acoustics also come into play.

Make sure you take an ORIGINAL CD with music you know (not a compressed iPod version, or a CD you burnt from your compressed iTunes library) and a movie you like and know on DVD (again, original), or better yet, Blu-Ray (assuming the audio is recorded in one of the HD formats) and start listening.

You can also give Integra/Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon, Arcam... And plenty of others a listen in terms of quality receivers.. The Arcam AVR350 does a good job of surround, and stereo (in stereo direct mode)... Arcams are VERY nice, but also pricey, and I don't think they have support for the new HD audio formats just yet.

I'd suggest you stay away from Harmon Kardon, Of the 10 odd HK amps I installed in 2007, 8 were returned under warranty. I don't even want to start counting for the years before...

And don't let the sales guys baffle you with bullshit. Trust your ears for your music and 5.1 audio. YOU have to listen to it.

Z...

[AaronFord]

thanks again for the advice/ suggestions

im an audio tech...so i know what to listen for and how to audition speakers etc

...its just, for a couple of boxes that move air its a whole new world..

In regard to the 2.0 vs 5.1 for music i know a dedicated stereo system would be a better choice than 5.1 for pure audio cds...thats not what im looking for so....im just wondering if im expecting too much from a 5.1
If im sitting there listening to a great 5.1 setup and change to a cd and the quailty greatly drops should i stratch them off the list?

it just makes sense to me if u have two great floorstanding speakers in a 5.1 setup switching to 2 channel material should just "turn off" the center and rears and leave u back with 2 great floorstanders...?

[FFC]

That's right, most modern receivers/amps (pretty sure all do ) have stereo modes where they will only output to the front right and left speakers, and the sub if you want it to.

At the end of the day they are your ears, and if you've got 6k to spend any decent hifi shop will let you mix and match speaker sets with amps till you're happy with how they sound for both 5.1 and music in stereo.

Go with your ears, not with what a bunch mentally lacking nerds on an overclocking forum says.

[pelmen]

I went through a similar process myself recently (settled on a Yamaha receiver and JBL speakers and am very very happy with the setup). I had the same desire: a surround setup that gave great stereo only performance.

Zee's advice is pretty good. I did a fair bit of homework before hitting the stores, start with some key respected brands and check out what they have that might suit your budget, have the specs/features you want both now and will likely want later on are available locally (so you can maybe audition) and of course suit the space they are going to be in (ask yourself if floorstanders are too big, would you prefer smaller satellite speakers, do you want to wall mount etc etc). Check out reviews in magazines and online (though many mags pander to advertisers and suppliers and don't ever give "bad" reviews so check out a range of reviews).

For myself, I'd decided I wanted floorstanders for the fronts, bookshelf on stands for surrounds, center and sub. I spent some time going through my CDs and picking key tracks that I was familiar with and also exhibited specific qualities that would really test the speakers. Be careful with the CD choices as mastering qualities differ and you might notice hiss or clipping (argh) etc that might put you off a buying choice (that is, if it sounds bad in the store it may be the CD itself and not the system you are listening to that is to blame). So pick a range of music that lets you listen for clarity of high notes, vocals and deep bass etc. Personally when I made my choice after a couple of auditions I narrowed my playlist down to a couple of tracks that had caused problems for other speakers (the start of Pink Floyd's "Time" with all the chimes going off I found harsh to listen to on some setups and comfortable on others at high volumes, the drums around 7-10min into the first track on Manowar's "Triumph of Steel" really stressed the attack/delay and low end of the bass).

With auditioning I found it preferable to do it on the weekend instead of after work and to make sure the CDs I took along were ones I enjoy listening to. That way you are relaxed and in the mood to really listen, straight after work you might be a bit tense and that can effect your decision. Also try to get them to crank up the volume to above what you are likely to ever use, you don't want to buy a setup that sounds great as low volumes but the first time you put on a loud action movie find out it can't handle it. But be realistic and dont just get them to crank it to full for the hell of it.

Before you pop along to a store its a good courtesy to phone first to arrange an auditioning time. This will give them time to reconfigure their listening room if they need and have options for you to listen to all ready to go.

If you can familiarise yourself with a shortlist of locally available products that "sound good on paper" for you this will help you and dealers. That way when you book to audition you can tell them your budget and say "I'm interested in something along the lines of Product X with Product Y speakers" and that can help them with the sort of package you might have in mind. If you are comfortable spending your full budget also consider a setup that is a little above it...you might be able to haggle a dealer for a better setup but within your budget (I was offered some awesome deals, one dealer even offered me around 50% off on some amazing speakers). It depends if you are just happy to pay the sticker price or want to try to get a better deal...the worse that can happen is the dealer politely says they can't do the price any better.

Be respectful to the dealers too, most will be happy to spend the time discussing your needs, going over options and letting you listen to CDs. I took the time to ring back the dealers that I had auditioned with but decided not to buy from and thank them for their time.

I also found myself changing my mind over a couple of days about speakers I'd auditioned. Some dealers can be more persuasive than others, some speakers looked really cool, some audition rooms were more impressive than others. Take a little time after all your auditioning to let yourself get over any of the things that might have impressed you but had no bearing on the setup itself (like how comfy the listening couch was) and trust your ears. Don't let a dealer try to put you under pressure to decide on the spot, its a lot of money and a decision you will have to live with for a long time.

I pretty much only auditioned the front floorstanders on their own to make sure that purely stereo music sounded great. This lets you hear if they can handle bass etc to your liking. Many decent receivers have some form of microphone autocalibration and speakers are generally available in series (eg the XYZ series from Product Z will be available in floorstanders, bookshelf, center and sub etc which are well matched to each other...so if the floorstanders work well in stereo only then odds are good that when you add the surrounds in they will work nicely in a home theatre). So you can expand your audition to a full surround setup later when you've narrowed your stereo setup down to a couple of choices.


This post is probably a bit random but hopefully it'll help. Essentially do some homework, get used to the terminolgy/features so a sales-shark doesn't try to bs you into a bad decision, take music you enjoy and will test the setups at loud volumes (listen at both loud and normal listening levels though in your testing), and try to audition at a time when you are more relaxed and receptive to the music.


Good luck, when you've found the right setup for you its really enjoyable.

[pelmen]

lol, took me over an hour to post that reply and it looks liek you probably dont need most of that advice

short answer: for $6k you will be able to get a great speaker/amp setup that works well with both 2.0 and 5.1 sources.

[Zee]

Originally Posted by pelmen

short answer: for $6k you will be able to get a great speaker/amp setup that works well with both 2.0 and 5.1 sources.

Also my point

Nice long winded answer though, good advice.

Z...

[AaronFord]

lol thanks for taking the time anyway:P
its good advice that cant be said enough

[AaronFord]

small update...
went for a first listen today.. two models that stuck out in floorstands were

JAMO - D450
LINN - NINKA

Everything else sounded horrible to my ears...really harsh...including some rather pricey systems.

I believe im a fan of silk domes

Ill check out some other brands later this week..but can anyone recommend something similar sounding to the jamo and linn?

[Zee]

Name the brands you didn't like, so we wont repeat any

Can't think of who makes silk dome tweets all of a sudden. I'm Pretty sure Tru Audio use metal, Boston use aluminium and "Coretec", JBL use.. titanium I think?

Perhaps Sonance?

Ninja edit - try finding a brand called Canton, very nice speakers.

Z...

[yihfeng]

Both Zee and Pelmen has good posts.

it just makes sense to me if u have two great floorstanding speakers in a 5.1 setup switching to 2 channel material should just "turn off" the center and rears and leave u back with 2 great floorstanders...?

That is correct. My previous post was mainly stating the obvious, since you weren't absolutely clear in your original post

Originally Posted by AaronFord

small update...
went for a first listen today.. two models that stuck out in floorstands were

JAMO - D450
LINN - NINKA

Everything else sounded horrible to my ears...really harsh...including some rather pricey systems.

I believe im a fan of silk domes

Ill check out some other brands later this week..but can anyone recommend something similar sounding to the jamo and linn?

Haven't heard either, but the owner and designer of Legend Acoustics used to be a senior acoustic engineer at Linn.

They are an Australian company, which means you save a shit load of money by not paying for the importer to ship 50 kilo crates around the world and pay import duties etc. And that you are supporting australian small businesses, if that is your kind of thing

Lots of speakers use silk domes. No particular models come to mind at the momment, but pick almost any slightly cheaper speakers (1-3kish) and there's a good chance that it'll be a sllk dome