Mmmm... Bugs! (or why I am switching back to XP)

[gaspah]

Originally Posted by INerTIal

I don't know whether you are trolling or what but "you did something you're not meant to" is about the dumbest suggestion I have heard for this.

Trolling on a troll-thread? Are you drunk?? Calling me dumb? At least I know how to get my wireless working correctly...

[kreegor]

Originally Posted by gaspah

i especially love the way vista handles folder settings...

You love the fact that it changes randomly and doesn't stay the way you have specifically set it? Wow! I guess it does take all types.

I find that the built in wireless works well. It doesn't always refresh with the right details and sometimes it says you are disconnected even if you are connected but that doesn't matter. As long as you are connected it's all good. You could always use the software that comes with your wireless NIC to manage the connection.

[Elyzion]

Originally Posted by INerTIal

*some newbie ranting about Vista*

Hmmmm So basically... you donno what your doing? And because change is bad you are going back to XP.

Cool beans.

[banshee343]

Originally Posted by kreegor

You love the fact that it changes randomly and doesn't stay the way you have specifically set it? Wow! I guess it does take all types.

Id have to agree with him on this one. I have more problems with XP trying to remember folder views and settings than vista.

[Catweazle]

Thirded, because I've also found Vista more reliable than XP regarding folder view settings, even with BagMRU settings for XP configured to use more than the insanely small limits XP has by default.

As I've said on previous occasions, I've found programs using customised load/save dialogues seem to fuck with folder view settings in Vista. I don't use programs which have them, and have pretty reliable folder view 'memory' on my Vista rigs.

[Al3x]

Didn't even realise it was you until I read your SSID, THEN looked at your avatar.

Now that's sad. See you're having fun with the VistaLOLS

[dink]

The thing that shits me most about Vista, is that is designed to keep the average user happy and secure. By doing this, they alienate enthusiast and advanced users of their software. Really, I don't need to click through tree warning boxes to perform an admin task.

Also, XP was object oriented. As in, you want to change video settings, you go to the video card. Vista is task oriented, as in, I want to change the way my desktop looks. Surely, Vista is not too different from XP and Microsoft could have provided an enthusiast/advanced install of Vista that doesn't treat you like the average consumer.


Vista and the reasoning behind it has alienated the advanced and enthusiast users who recommend it to their friends/clients.

[fallen_dragon]

Originally Posted by dink

is that is designed to keep the average user happy and secure. By doing this, they alienate enthusiast and advanced users of their software.

presented with the option of making 99.8% of my users happy I'd probably go that option too.

having said that, they should just have a "i'm leet, so gimme no extras, no candy and raw settings" install option. then everyones happy

[vader]

Originally Posted by dink

The thing that shits me most about Vista, is that is designed to keep the average user happy and secure. By doing this, they alienate enthusiast and advanced users of their software. .

Enthusiast and advanced users just change the options so they don't get bugged by this.
If you cant figure out how to do this, your not an advanced user, and should leave the UAC settings alone for your own protection.

[Dutch Wink]

people making love to an inanimate object ITT.

loving the fact that so many blinded vista lovers cannot read past the fact that someone dislikes vista, whatever the reason, and just start attacking their pc expertise.

fuck off threadshitters.

[power]

Originally Posted by dink

The thing that shits me most about Vista, is that is designed to keep the average user happy and secure. By doing this, they alienate enthusiast and advanced users of their software. Really, I don't need to click through tree warning boxes to perform an admin task.

Also, XP was object oriented. As in, you want to change video settings, you go to the video card. Vista is task oriented, as in, I want to change the way my desktop looks. Surely, Vista is not too different from XP and Microsoft could have provided an enthusiast/advanced install of Vista that doesn't treat you like the average consumer.


Vista and the reasoning behind it has alienated the advanced and enthusiast users who recommend it to their friends/clients.

like i said earlier in the thread, alot of "power users" are a little miffed that the "fuck security" button is missing.

tbh i can't believe how many "power users" can't figure out simple things like file sharing, they couldn't figure it out on 2K either and whinged then and continued to use 98SE - then XP gave you the fuck security option and all the noobs clicked that instead of using you know - security.

[gaspah]

Originally Posted by dink

Vista and the reasoning behind it has alienated the advanced and enthusiast users who recommend it to their friends/clients.

im an enthusiast.. i dont feel alienated.. i took to it like a fish to water... now i look back at xp with horror and dismay.. all my headless pc's however still use Server 2003 as they generally dont require all the new fantastic features vista provides..

[Catweazle]

Originally Posted by Dutch Wink

people making love to an inanimate object ITT.

loving the fact that so many blinded vista lovers cannot read past the fact that someone dislikes vista, whatever the reason, and just start attacking their pc expertise.

fuck off threadshitters.

Were the comments preceding yours really an example of such a thing I'd agree, but they're not. Fact is that the comment responded to made assumption of that nature regarding the PC expertise of others. Assumed, in fact, that people not concurring with point of view expressed must be 'average user' rather than advanced or enthusiast user.

The criticism of those comments was valid and warranted.

Originally Posted by dink

The thing that shits me most about Vista, is that is designed to keep the average user happy and secure. By doing this, they alienate enthusiast and advanced users of their software.

As mentioned, please don't presume that an advanced user such as myself will respond in the same way you do. I'm neither having difficulties and annoyances from using the thing, nor feeling somehow alienated by it.

Really, I don't need to click through tree warning boxes to perform an admin task.

Me neither. I'm damned glad that I'm an advanced user who doesn't need to do so. It's easy enough to configure the thing (after you've done the intial setting up of course, so that permissions for the bulk of your installed software are correctly set) to elevate already authorised stuff without generating secure desktop prompts. Get the benefits of least user privilege operation that way, without unnecessary prompts.

Also, XP was object oriented. As in, you want to change video settings, you go to the video card. Vista is task oriented, as in, I want to change the way my desktop looks. Surely, Vista is not too different from XP and Microsoft could have provided an enthusiast/advanced install of Vista that doesn't treat you like the average consumer.

Say what? You want to have the OS come ready configured for the advanced user, coz you're having trouble using and coping with it? What's that'n gonna be called? 'Advanced Vista for Dummies'?

At worst, some system configuration setting are one or (on rare occasions) two more clicks away because of the changes made. But overall it's got easier and quicker. Search in Control Panel makes it so, a lot of the time, because you can have applet dialogues open up already at the correct tab. Typing a keyword or two is a quicker way to navigate to where you wanna be.

Classic mode is there if I wanna use it, but an 'advanced user' like myself is kinda familiar with the technical terms to use as search terms, so I've kinda fallen into the habit of not using it any more.

Oh. By the way. Nvidia cards in my rig, so if it really is 'video settings' I want to change I'd not even go into the 'personalise' thingy. Right-click on desktop and Nvidia Control Panel.

That's the thing. Genuinely 'advanced' users just ain't 'object oriented'. they are 'task oriented'. They get to know the OS, identify what the goal is, and set about finding the quickest and easiest way to achieve the goal.

Vista and the reasoning behind it has alienated the advanced and enthusiast users who recommend it to their friends/clients.

No it hasn't. It's exposed a helluva lot of people on a helluva lot of techie boards for what they really are. People who've learnt to do stuff by memorising step-by-step 'press this button next' guides. Intermediate users maybe, but adherents to the 'Public Service Training Course' school of thought rather than genuinely advanced users who can cope with accomodating what's different and learning what's better.

[dink]

Originally Posted by Catweazle

As mentioned, please don't presume that an advanced user such as myself will respond in the same way you do. I'm neither having difficulties and annoyances from using the thing, nor feeling somehow alienated by it.

Me neither. I'm damned glad that I'm an advanced user who doesn't need to do so. It's easy enough to configure the thing (after you've done the intial setting up of course, so that permissions for the bulk of your installed software are correctly set) to elevate already authorised stuff without generating secure desktop prompts. Get the benefits of least user privilege operation that way, without unnecessary prompts.


Say what? You want to have the OS come ready configured for the advanced user, coz you're having trouble using and coping with it? What's that'n gonna be called? 'Advanced Vista for Dummies'?

At worst, some system configuration setting are one or (on rare occasions) two more clicks away because of the changes made. But overall it's got easier and quicker. Search in Control Panel makes it so, a lot of the time, because you can have applet dialogues open up already at the correct tab. Typing a keyword or two is a quicker way to navigate to where you wanna be.

Classic mode is there if I wanna use it, but an 'advanced user' like myself is kinda familiar with the technical terms to use as search terms, so I've kinda fallen into the habit of not using it any more.

Oh. By the way. Nvidia cards in my rig, so if it really is 'video settings' I want to change I'd not even go into the 'personalise' thingy. Right-click on desktop and Nvidia Control Panel.

That's the thing. Genuinely 'advanced' users just ain't 'object oriented'. they are 'task oriented'. They get to know the OS, identify what the goal is, and set about finding the quickest and easiest way to achieve the goal.



No it hasn't. It's exposed a helluva lot of people on a helluva lot of techie boards for what they really are. People who've learnt to do stuff by memorising step-by-step 'press this button next' guides. Intermediate users maybe, but adherents to the 'Public Service Training Course' school of thought rather than genuinely advanced users who can cope with accomodating what's different and learning what's better.

I do realise that you can turn off the bits and pieces that annoy you in Vista. However, then I would end up with an OS that looked and behaved like XP. What a waste my $300 upgrade would be. If I got an OEM Vista licence with a laptop I had purchased, I would probably learn to live with it.

I don't think you quite understood with what I meant by object orientated/task orientated. It is the way the OS is laid out, rather than how the user thinks. In XP, all the video card setting are on the Display dialog. In Vista, all the options to change the way your desktop looks are on the same dialog.

I suppose the thing that gets me is that Vista makes the workings of your computer more obscure. This will make it easier for inexperienced users to use Vista, but at the same time it will stop these users from become powerusers. If you don't know the inner working of your hardware, you cannot make your computer tasks as efficient as possible. Microsoft is doing their best to keep their users dumb.

[Catweazle]

Originally Posted by dink

I do realise that you can turn off the bits and pieces that annoy you in Vista. However, then I would end up with an OS that looked and behaved like XP. What a waste my $300 upgrade would be. If I got an OEM Vista licence with a laptop I had purchased, I would probably learn to live with it.

The 'elevate without prompting' tweak mentioned above isn't in the slightest 'behaving like XP' actually. And by 'look like XP' I presume you mean using the Classic Theme. Helluva lot can be tweaked without resorting to that extreme.

I don't think you quite understood with what I meant by object orientated/task orientated. It is the way the OS is laid out, rather than how the user thinks. In XP, all the video card setting are on the Display dialog. In Vista, all the options to change the way your desktop looks are on the same dialog.

Hey, hang on a bit! Ley's have another look at that to see the truth of just how 'different' it is. To get to those video card specific settings amongst the display settings.....

In XP:

1. Right-click desktop and choose 'Properties'. That opens the display properties dialogue, at the system default 'Themes' tab.
2. Select the 'Settings' tab.
3. Click on the 'Advanced' button. That gets you to the display card specific settings.

Or just right-click desktop and select the Control Panel/Centre installed with the display driver, if you've used the full driver package from the GPU manufacturer.


In Vista:

1. Right-click desktop and choose 'Personalise'.
2. Click on 'Display Settings.
3. Click the 'Advanced' button. Bingo! There you are. 3 moves, just like you need to do in XP!

Or, again, just right-click and choose the control panel for your display adaptor.

The 'Personalise' thingy in Vista is just a menu rather than tabs. It also accesses the system sounds (which kinda makes sense as they are a 'themes' thing) but all it really does is present the dialogue tabs individually rather than lumping them all together.

I suppose the thing that gets me is that Vista makes the workings of your computer more obscure. This will make it easier for inexperienced users to use Vista, but at the same time it will stop these users from become powerusers. If you don't know the inner working of your hardware, you cannot make your computer tasks as efficient as possible. Microsoft is doing their best to keep their users dumb.

I'm absolutely bewildered by comments such as these. Just like any other Windows version previously, if you have a good dig and delve around in Vista you can easily enough find all sorts of stuff. Seriously, it could only possibly be 'obscure' to a person who doesn't right-click on shit to see what the context menu contains!