Laser Printer for PCB Manufacturing ..

hoopstar · 9th January 2009, 1:08 PM

Hi Guys..

I am taking a bit of a risk here and posting a "what to buy" in the electronics thread..

What I am after is a cheap-ish Laser Printer that produces good quality results with the "iron on" method for PCB manufacturing at home..

By cheap-ish I mean.. cheap to buy but also cheap to run..

anyway - hope someone can point me in the right direction.. I am sure the admins will move this thread if it is not appropriately placed..

Hoops

GooSE · 9th January 2009, 3:42 PM

The main things to look for are dpi (higher = better) and the type of toner used. Basically there's 2 types of toner particles: particles with greatly varying size or particles with a more uniform size. There's a name for this property but I forget what it's called. Anyway, uniform sized toner particles are better.

Basically I remember that Kyocera and HP use this type of toner, and Fuji Xerox might be another one. I've had great success with both Kyocera and HP, but have never tried Fuji Xerox.

Generally the shittier brands (I'm looking at you, Brother) give poor results.

hoopstar · 9th January 2009, 3:48 PM

Cheers GooSE,

Awesome info..!!

Hoops

MWP · 10th January 2009, 12:19 AM

You dont need a laser.
Ive used a bubble jet printer with awesome results (double sided, small pitch SMD's).

I used the bubble jet transparencies, and then exposed, developed and etched as per normal.

ie:

hoopstar · 10th January 2009, 12:27 AM

Hmm.. nice work there Mark..!!

These transparencies - these are just like your stock standard "over head projector" transparencies..??

And then you lay them over photo-resist coated PCB's and expose to UV..??

How long for..?? What Wattage globes..??

Details man.. I need details..

Hoops

dakiller · 10th January 2009, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MWP

You dont need a laser.
Ive used a bubble jet printer with awesome results (double sided, small pitch SMD's).

I used the bubble jet transparencies, and then exposed, developed and etched as per normal.

They're talking about iron on's.

I've tried many times to get iron on transfers to work and nothing is reliable at all. I've use every paper from the expensive jaycar stuff, to glossy magazines to plain paper. Tried to preheat the PCB in the oven (80C) and all the settings on the iron. I either get patchy transfers where it doesn't all stick or bleeding out traces from over heating. I clean the pcb's with steel wool just before and have a fairly new HP colour laser printer as well as an oldish photocopier.

I've given up on it. Maybe one day I'll go invest in a photolithography setup

JaC · 10th January 2009, 10:43 AM

UV Exposure + PCBs with resist is the best way to go. Iron on are good if you only want to make one or two boards if you whole life. But once you get the thirst for making more, you will get annoyed with the poor repeatability of Iron On.

I built a UV Exposure Box, and there are heaps of other websites around on the net these days with more info.

Odje · 10th January 2009, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dakiller

I've tried many times to get iron on transfers to work and nothing is reliable at all. I've use every paper from the expensive jaycar stuff, to glossy magazines to plain paper. Tried to preheat the PCB in the oven (80C) and all the settings on the iron. I either get patchy transfers where it doesn't all stick or bleeding out traces from over heating. I clean the pcb's with steel wool just before and have a fairly new HP colour laser printer as well as an oldish photocopier.

I've given up on it. Maybe one day I'll go invest in a photolithography setup

I am in the same boat. I have made a few boards with the expensive Jaycar blue stuff and the results have been bleeding mainly, and sometimes not sticking when I have a large board. It is has gotten to the point where I can’t be bothered to make PCBs due to the frustration endured.

I am also looking at investing in a photolithography setup but the cost of the photo resist boards seems high. So much so that getting manufactured prototype boards are starting to look cheap, not to mention they are double sided, through hole plated and silkscreened.

dakiller · 10th January 2009, 2:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odje

getting manufactured prototype boards are starting to look cheap, not to mention they are double sided, through hole plated and silkscreened.

$99USD for a 10"x14.5" double sided board with solder mask and silkscreen is pretty darn good - http://www.goldphoenixpcb.biz/special_price.php

hoopstar · 10th January 2009, 5:02 PM

Maybe Batch PCB is the better way to go..

Anyone used them??

Hoops

2xCPU · 10th January 2009, 5:39 PM

Futurlec also do boards, but only up to two layers.

I haven't tried them, but their prices look good.

2.

dakiller · 10th January 2009, 5:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoopstar

Maybe Batch PCB is the better way to go..

Anyone used them??

Hoops

Yes, used them. They pool PCB's up and have Gold Phoenix make them each week. Good for small boards but starts to cost a bit for larger stuff. Turn around time is over a month once you (just about) ship it around the world, China->USA->Aus. Quality is great

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2xCPU

Futurlec also do boards, but only up to two layers.

I haven't tried them, but their prices look good.

2.

Also used, also good. Can be quite cheap if you don't need double sided, solder masks or silkscreens. I got these done not long ago -

dohzer · 10th January 2009, 6:33 PM

I used the cheapest laser printer that Office Works had a while ago; an HP Laser Jet 1020.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dakiller

Also used, also good. Can be quite cheap if you don't need double sided, solder masks or silkscreens. I got these done not long ago -
http://imagestore.ugbox.net/image/IM...199d11191c.jpg
http://imagestore.ugbox.net/image/IM...40787cdccc.jpg

That board look fairly similar to the results I was getting by following GooSE's PCB making guide. They were a little unreliable at first but I did a few batches and they started turning out alright. I haven't done them in a while so I'm sure I'd have to practice first if I wanted to make some more.

Technics · 10th January 2009, 6:41 PM

I used a cheap Samsung ML-1640 with the toner tranfer method for these:

It works fairly well and only one trace needed cleaning up after the etch was done.

I would recommend outsourcing if your doing more than one. For a one off DIY can still be a lot faster.

dohzer · 10th January 2009, 7:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technics

I would recommend outsourcing if your doing more than one. For a one off DIY can still be a lot faster.

And it can be good for prototyping before you send off a whole heap of incorrect boards for manufacturer... not that anyone would ever do that.

9th January 2009, 1:08 PM	#1
hoopstar Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Adelaide.. Posts: 2,095	Laser Printer for PCB Manufacturing .. Hi Guys.. I am taking a bit of a risk here and posting a "what to buy" in the electronics thread.. What I am after is a cheap-ish Laser Printer that produces good quality results with the "iron on" method for PCB manufacturing at home.. By cheap-ish I mean.. cheap to buy but also cheap to run.. anyway - hope someone can point me in the right direction.. I am sure the admins will move this thread if it is not appropriately placed.. Hoops Last edited by hoopstar; 9th January 2009 at 3:47 PM.

10th January 2009, 12:19 AM	#4
MWP Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Adelaide Posts: 4,615	You dont need a laser. Ive used a bubble jet printer with awesome results (double sided, small pitch SMD's). I used the bubble jet transparencies, and then exposed, developed and etched as per normal. ie: __________________ MWP PC Database AdminCrystalfontz CrystalControl2 Author - Offical Forums Motoring Worklog - Toyota V8 RA28 Celica SA Classic Celica Club Member - Website Last edited by MWP; 10th January 2009 at 12:24 AM.

10th January 2009, 10:43 AM	#7
JaC Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 990	UV Exposure + PCBs with resist is the best way to go. Iron on are good if you only want to make one or two boards if you whole life. But once you get the thirst for making more, you will get annoyed with the poor repeatability of Iron On. I built a UV Exposure Box, and there are heaps of other websites around on the net these days with more info. __________________ .

10th January 2009, 5:39 PM	#11
2xCPU Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: uk Posts: 1,732	Futurlec also do boards, but only up to two layers. I haven't tried them, but their prices look good. 2. __________________ Wanted: Naked GPS and HP-IB interface If "building a computer" doesn't involve powertools, your just assembling spare parts. ---- The universe is made up of atoms and empty space, the rest is mere opinion. Democritus, 400 BC.

10th January 2009, 6:41 PM	#14
Technics Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 473	I used a cheap Samsung ML-1640 with the toner tranfer method for these: It works fairly well and only one trace needed cleaning up after the etch was done. I would recommend outsourcing if your doing more than one. For a one off DIY can still be a lot faster. __________________ Disclaimer: Any statements made in this post that are not based on historical fact are forward-looking statements. Any forward-looking statements made in this post represent Technics's best judgment as to what may occur in the future. However, the actual outcome and results are not guaranteed and are subject to certain risks, uncertainties and assumptions (“Future Factors”), and may differ materially from what is expressed.

9th January 2009, 3:42 PM	#2
GooSE Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sydney Posts: 5,324	The main things to look for are dpi (higher = better) and the type of toner used. Basically there's 2 types of toner particles: particles with greatly varying size or particles with a more uniform size. There's a name for this property but I forget what it's called. Anyway, uniform sized toner particles are better. Basically I remember that Kyocera and HP use this type of toner, and Fuji Xerox might be another one. I've had great success with both Kyocera and HP, but have never tried Fuji Xerox. Generally the shittier brands (I'm looking at you, Brother) give poor results.

9th January 2009, 3:48 PM	#3
hoopstar Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Adelaide.. Posts: 2,095	Cheers GooSE, Awesome info..!! Hoops

10th January 2009, 12:27 AM	#5
hoopstar Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Adelaide.. Posts: 2,095	Hmm.. nice work there Mark..!! These transparencies - these are just like your stock standard "over head projector" transparencies..?? And then you lay them over photo-resist coated PCB's and expose to UV..?? How long for..?? What Wattage globes..?? Details man.. I need details.. Hoops

10th January 2009, 5:02 PM	#10
hoopstar Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Adelaide.. Posts: 2,095	Maybe Batch PCB is the better way to go.. Anyone used them?? Hoops