DAW Ram Timings

[Image_Engine]

Hi All
I am building a new machine; i7 920/gbyte ud4 etc. It is specifically for live performance so audio latency is critical (and the whole point of not using a laptop which hasnt been very successful ie Core2 duo 2.0g etc). I have read about the audio latency being very tied to ram timings/speed). Currently I have corsair xms3 3*1g 1333; 9-9-9-24. Is this reasonable? What settings should I look for when buying ram for this sort of application etc? What real differences will 1333 vs 1600 make? Im using Ableton Live for performance and its loaded with my guitar modellers, synths etc but not a lot of sampling (its realtime looping) on v32. Any help greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Mark

[Jonbanez]

This would probably be more at home in the musicians section.

However, IMO the machine your building is overkill for its intended purpose.

Id be interested to know if it was actually resource related issue that was causing the latency on the original setup. Was the page file / CPU usage through the roof?

The latency settings are usually adjustable through the drivers that came with your recording interface. You didnt mention what interface you were using. I am assuming its USB as you were using it with a laptop.

I have an old 1.6Ghz centrino single core that i find more than up to the task of recording / playing back with my Line 6 toneport.

I use cubase not abelton, but i have some pretty massive projects with 25+ tracks and it handles them fine.

[Image_Engine]

Originally Posted by Jonbanez

This would probably be more at home in the musicians section.

However, IMO the machine your building is overkill for its intended purpose.

Id be interested to know if it was actually resource related issue that was causing the latency on the original setup. Was the page file / CPU usage through the roof?

The latency settings are usually adjustable through the drivers that came with your recording interface. You didnt mention what interface you were using. I am assuming its USB as you were using it with a laptop.

I have an old 1.6Ghz centrino single core that i find more than up to the task of recording / playing back with my Line 6 toneport.

I use cubase not abelton, but i have some pretty massive projects with 25+ tracks and it handles them fine.

Hi Jon
Didnt realise there was one (music section)...everything else is on track except memory.
Suppose I should elaborate. Its actually a rig...
Instruments:
Ibanez strat fitted with onboard midi
FCB foot controller with customised eprom
Axiom controller
Percussion rig with TD10 and mic to cymbals, gongs etc
Cello on additional input

Software components
VBsript hosting;
Midiox to translate to and map/matrix all the possibilities as well as provide 'behaviours' for footpedals etc eg double tap etc (otherwise you cant control live in realtime without a lot of work)
An iexplorer which gives realtime display of the presets/tracks etc (Large in high contrast so you can actually see it on stage!)
A lyric program which has two outputs, one that feeds lyrics with chord charts on stage monitors, the other goes to projector. It netcasts to other machines as well (so remote players with lappys just are clients to the lyric prog)
These are all linked so I can select a song from the guitar or midi keyboard as well as presets etc depending on the bank im on as well as when I select a verse etc it changes the lyric program etc. All lot of the time its realtime and I just start building the different loops spontaneously.

I use a combination of modellers including GBox, Amplitube, GRig etc. Sometimes these are dual or 3 part amp setups and just those by themselves are cpu heavy. Not to mention playing Wavestation patches etc from midi guitar etc...they are REAL heavy. On top of this I would prefer 96k so that I can use the actual live stuff back in my studio (where I use SX with RME/UAD blah blah)
To play at an ok compromise, 5ms latency is the absolute max (ie 5+5=10 total). I have seen tests of i7 with 40 samples at 80% cpu. The l6 software really struggles and I threw it out a long time ago. I use the Line6 di for the guitar (usb) and have an alesis firewire multimix which I have duplexed using asio4all.
Its pretty demanding and switching everything off except essentials and using DPLatency testing it was struggling.
The main prob (lappy) is needing 2 vga out, a TI 1394 chipset (almost imposs these days) and the lappy is so fragile, Im building the new sys into a technicians toolbox eg the aluminium flight case (the ud4 MB has TI 1394). As soon as you turn on the ricoh 1394 is just about out of the question on the lappy.
Anyway hope that helps paint the picture.
Cheers
Mark

[Jonbanez]

Ah i see.

Multiple inputs from mutiple interfaces is always going to slow things down. Amplified by the amount of software your running. Much clearer now.

To answer your question re ram purchase, whats your budget?

I would have thought a 6GB kit would be preferable, given all the applications that will need memory allocated.

There are lower latency kits around than the one you refered to, but they cost a little more.

For example: http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?...oducts_id=8648

As for 1600 vs 1333, IMO no noticeable difference for your purposes. Having said that, if your into tinkering you may be able to tighten the timings down more on a 1600 kit than a 1333 kit (If you underclock them).

[Image_Engine]

Thanks for the reply.
I was of the understanding that anything above 3g is absolutely useless to 32 bit os (after masses of research)? Anyhow, The 3g corsair was $160 (havent unpacked it yet so I can return it) and I looked around first ie it was the cheapest I could find locally. So those numbers being lower = better ? ie 7-7-7-24 is better than 9-9-9-24?
Cheers
M.

PS Do you know where I could get a 1U pcie riser from?

[Jonbanez]

Originally Posted by Image_Engine

Thanks for the reply.
I was of the understanding that anything above 3g is absolutely useless to 32 bit os (after masses of research)? Anyhow, The 3g corsair was $160 (havent unpacked it yet so I can return it) and I looked around first ie it was the cheapest I could find locally. So those numbers being lower = better ? ie 7-7-7-24 is better than 9-9-9-24?
Cheers
M.

PS Do you know where I could get a 1U pcie riser from?

Yes well thats true, sorry i just assumed you were using a 64Bit OS. My bad.

If you were going to go down this route, i would ensure you can get 64bit compatible drivers for all your devices. If you can i would go for it as you will definately see an increase in performance.

And yes the lower the timings the better.

[Image_Engine]

BTW Thanks for the inf Found a local source for the P instead of G OCZ. Did you have any suggestions on sources for pcie risers?

[Jonbanez]

http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/...+express+riser

Quite a few options there

Or try these guys http://www.multicorp.com.au/Extenders.htm

[Willybomb]

I have read about the audio latency being very tied to ram timings/speed).

No, it's tied more to your audio drivers.

Most apps (I'm not into Abelton so I don't know about that as I'm a Reaper guy these days - and Reaper definitely does) will report the latency and fiddling with the numbers of buffers and their sizes will affect it accordingly.

[Image_Engine]

Originally Posted by Willybomb

No, it's tied more to your audio drivers.

Most apps (I'm not into Abelton so I don't know about that as I'm a Reaper guy these days - and Reaper definitely does) will report the latency and fiddling with the numbers of buffers and their sizes will affect it accordingly.

Hi Willybomb
Ill find the link...I realise there is audio latency and ram latency but apparently the audio latency is very dependent on clock speed and ram io ie A fast dual core will return better audio latencies than a quad with lower clock. Those settings are only buffer controls to alleviate CPU burden. The ram is like bucketing and because of the massive speed of memory IO (and remember realtime monitoring is bidirectional), there is a direct correlation. Ill soon know the truth...nothing like daw benching, wish it were as simple as normal benchmarking :-(
Regards
Mark

[Image_Engine]

Originally Posted by Jonbanez

http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/...+express+riser

Quite a few options there

Or try these guys http://www.multicorp.com.au/Extenders.htm

Cheers Jon
Hit the target straight up after a lot of wasted calls previously
Regs
M.

[cbjaust]

So are you doing digital sound processing on-the-fly? Are you using a sound card for you effects? Cause if you are and you are still using a 32 bit Windows OS then you should really have a look into the drivers which have full support for ASIO v2.0 hosts and give the possibility of 5.33ms ASIO latency (even 2.66ms depending on hardware/software)

You can find the latest build here and also that forum is where you can find lots of info and help.

I have some experience with the drivers but I don't make music so my dabbling with ASIO is minor but I know it works.

Cheers