Overclockers Australia Forums

OCAU News - Wiki - QuickLinks - Pix - Sponsors  

Go Back   Overclockers Australia Forums > Other Topics > Musicians

Notices


Sign up for a free OCAU account and this ad will go away!
Search our forums with Google:
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10th December 2008, 9:08 AM   #1
Shags Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,577
Default

ChrisH Edit:
This thread is going to be used as the place for all beginners questions. I had some trouble moving the threads around, so after all that, here it what I have come up with...editting this post. I am sorry about that, I usually don't touch anyones posts.

Anyway the point of this thread is for those with seemingly obvious questions to be asked in here. Hel I know I ask a lot of no-brainers, and there is no real thread for them, so consider this it.

Posts that fit in here:
What guitar/amp should I buy?
How much should I spend?
What makes a good guitar?
What scales should I practice?
What songs should I learn?
*post clips of your playing to be constructively critisized*

etc.

So please, feel free to use this thread! And if threads randomly go missing form the forum, it is probably because I merged them in here.

Any problems? PM me, or any of the other guys around ehre, and I am sure they will help you out.

Some handy resources:
Nickeax has a website: www.guitaraustralia.com He's also a handy dude to ask questions to, and knows his gear pretty well.

DJ Fuson is pretty much a guru of production. Ask him about Ableton and other home recording stuff.

Shredder likes his japanese guitars, anything you want to know about ibanez and the likes, hit him up.

Willybomb is pretty knowledgable in most areas of musial theory and is also a guitar teacher, so questions relating to theory will most likely end up in his lap.

Comma knows electronic production back to front. Synth's and Midi's to computer based sound processing, he has it under control.

I don't mean to sign these guys up, but to be honest they know their stuff, so post in here and I am sure someone will help you out!
Cheers,
Chris


Hey Guys,

I got a guitar a few months back, Guitar accoustic with pickup/onboard tuner, Ashton, was $489.
http://www.ashtonmusic.com.au/produc...p?productID=87

Thats the one.

Now, The bridge has got a big crack in it, i took it back, they offered to replace it, i then saw this beauty.
http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/ag_...=3&series_id=7

Gotta be the best looking acoustic i've ever seen!

The shop will let me have the $489 in credit, but i can't decide if i want to put another $400 on top for the Ibanez (It's $899 at the store). Or just get the same Ashton again.

Can anyone help me choose?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by thetron View Post
Also his SMS speak was terrible and hard guy to understand that you need the internet to translate!

Last edited by ChrisH; 30th May 2009 at 3:54 PM. Reason: Updating the first post to be relevant to the merged thread heading
Shags is offline   Reply With Quote

Join OCAU to remove this ad!
Old 10th December 2008, 9:34 AM   #2
wellonchompy
Member
 
wellonchompy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sydney
Posts: 747
Default

Ashton is like the Kia of musical instruments. They make one of everything, and it's usually the cheapest option. They are worth as much as their warranty length, but are a reasonable choice for a beginner.

Anything you put your money to will likely be better! Ibanez isn't exactly renowned for their acoustics, but they make some damn fine electrics, so their acoustics can't be too bad.
__________________
My Rice PC Stats: CPU: 486 DX2/66 @ 66MHz|RAM: 32MB EDO|HDD: 1gb Fujutsu|1MB Trident SVGA|14" KTX Monitor @ 640*480|Audio Excel Sound (unamplified speakers)|33.6kbps Modem|10 Mbit NIC
wellonchompy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2008, 10:12 AM   #3
SteakTheMooCow
(Taking a Break)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,069
Default

I've got an AW10ECE and it sounds great. When using it plugged I get astonished responses when I tell them how little it cost.

Seriously though, the Ibanez acoustics from AW/AWE all sound great, but I have sadly not heard an EW; from what I have heard from AW/AWE I would recommend it, particularly over an Ashton (yes, even if it cost more).
SteakTheMooCow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2008, 10:49 AM   #4
spent
Member
 
spent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NSW
Posts: 181
Default

The Ibanez

It'll last you alot longer as your playing progresses

Last edited by spent; 10th December 2008 at 10:52 AM.
spent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2008, 11:39 AM   #5
Silent8ob
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Perth
Posts: 909
Default

When friend's have been buying beginner acoustic steel strings, and I haven't been able to go with them, I've usually said, "Just buy whatever Yamaha is in your price range that you like the look of".

You'd find it seriously hard to go wrong buying a Yamaha, and resale down the track is easy.

If that Ibanez plays as good as it sounds though, it is a beautiful guitar.
Silent8ob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2008, 12:49 PM   #6
shredder
Member
 
shredder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Dec 1991
Posts: 8,240
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shags View Post
Hey Guys,

I got a guitar a few months back, Guitar accoustic with pickup/onboard tuner, Ashton, was $489.
http://www.ashtonmusic.com.au/produc...p?productID=87

Thats the one.

Now, The bridge has got a big crack in it, i took it back, they offered to replace it, i then saw this beauty.
http://www.ibanez.co.jp/products/ag_...=3&series_id=7

Gotta be the best looking acoustic i've ever seen!

The shop will let me have the $489 in credit, but i can't decide if i want to put another $400 on top for the Ibanez (It's $899 at the store). Or just get the same Ashton again.

Can anyone help me choose?
I'd take the opportunity to trade up. Not necessarily to that particular Ibanez - though by all means get that one if you really love it - but certainly to something a little more reputable than Ashton.

Think about whether you need a plugin-able acoustic too. If you don't have a dedicated acoustic guitar amplifier (and don't plan to get one) then basically you can do without the plugin-ability. Cheaper electro-acoustics often produce a plugged-in sound inferior to that you'd get by mic'ing up anyway - so it's kinda pointless, unless you really value being able to plug in, for whatever reason.

You're usually better off getting $500 worth of real guitar quality than $350 worth of real guitar quality + a cheap $100 pickup and electronics shoehorned in (+ $50 extra 'feature profit' for the manufacturer) for the same price, to give a rough illustrative example that almost always holds true below $500, and often below $1000 too.
shredder is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2008, 6:20 PM   #7
ChrisH
Member
 
ChrisH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,151
Default

Hey mate,
I dont know how many people hear have actually played a Cocobalo body before, but let me educate you. Guitars are made from usually 3 types of wood.

One wood is usually designated for the brdige and fret board. common examples are Rosewood, or Ebony.

the second type of wood used is called the hardwood. These give structural support, and offer excellent resonance, due to the rigidity, but dont vibrate much themselves. examples of these are Mahogany, Cocobalo, Maple, Blackwood, Rosewood, etc etc. These woods are often found on the back/sides/neck.

the final types of wood is called a tone wood. Tone woods are SPECIFICALLY choosen for their ability to carry sound through them. They are often soft woods, light in weight, and often light in colour. A few good examples of tone woods are, Spruce, Cedar, Bunya and Occasionally maple. These woods are ideal for the top of a guitar because they resonate, but also express notes.


The Ibanez you suggested uses Cocobalo for its top. This is probably a HUGE mistake. I would strongly recommend buying yourself a guitar made of mahogany/maple, with a spruce top. Let me point you in a cheaper, and far better option ---> Maton M225 - EM225C

The M225 is the best sounding guitar for the money, and to be honest I dont think anyone here could disagree. The EM225C is also great although it is a cutaway (suit yourself). You can also get a EM225, no cutaway. Thats where the money is. These cost more than the ibanez, but the M225 is $750 pretty much everywhere.

If you are keen on an ibanez, get yourself the AW10EC as suggested earlier. If you want something of the same calibre as your current ashton, buy the Washburn D10-SCE. If you want to upgrade you should be debating between these:


Seagull S6 Original (with out without the electric (its called QI)

and the MAton M225 (with or without electric)

Feel free to ask any questions!

cheers,
Chris
ChrisH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th December 2008, 11:27 PM   #8
SteakTheMooCow
(Taking a Break)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,069
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by -weet*di- View Post
Hey mate,
I dont know how many people hear have actually played a Cocobalo body before, but let me educate you. Guitars are made from usually 3 types of wood.

...

The Ibanez you suggested uses Cocobalo for its top. This is probably a HUGE mistake. I would strongly recommend buying yourself a guitar made of mahogany/maple, with a spruce top. Let me point you in a cheaper, and far better option ---> Maton M225 - EM225C

The M225 is the best sounding guitar for the money, and to be honest I dont think anyone here could disagree. The EM225C is also great although it is a cutaway (suit yourself). You can also get a EM225, no cutaway. Thats where the money is. These cost more than the ibanez, but the M225 is $750 pretty much everywhere.

If you are keen on an ibanez, get yourself the AW10EC as suggested earlier. If you want something of the same calibre as your current ashton, buy the Washburn D10-SCE.
Agreed with the woods. It wasn't so much a suggestion, it's what I actually have sitting in its case in my room (I'll get it out when my wrist gets out of the bandage).

It's a great guitar, very bright. There's also the AW15CE which is more aligned for finger picking (if memory suits).

Mahogany with Spruce is a fantastic combination.

I didn't even notice the wood, so sorry about that, have to agree, it's not the best wood for it, even if it looks awesome. As you get better playing guitar, you might upgrade or go full electric, in which case you've got the budget to get sound with the looks, but personally I love the look of a good acoustic.

Maton guitars will probably beat anything in the sub $1250 price bracket for acoustics; the acoustic electrics similarly so. The problem is whether or not the specific sound (it's like a human voice; there are traits both good and bad about the sound) suits you.

I actually auditioned a Maton and decided against it because I wanted a very bright tone. Drop in, give them a play.

As an owner of the AW10CE I can say it's a fantastic guitar for its price and it has a great sound, but seriously, give them a play. If you do not feel comfortable, most places have people who can play a bit (even if not much). The store I went to get mine had a classical guitarist there who made the guitar sound a million times the price, which brings us to the next bit.

An awesome guitarist can make almost anything sound great. They can take a fairly standard guitar and make it sound fantastic. As -weet*di- said there are different characteristics in different woods and again, as I said, each different guitar will sound different. Each different woodwind player, singer, etc., has a similar difference. Even two "identical" guitars can have a change in sound (slightly). The skill of the guitarist is taking a decent guitar and making it an instrument. Decide on the sound for you.

If you happen to like the sound of spruce, as I do, get a spruce top. If you like the mahogany body, get one. However, if after it has been played, you like the sound of the cocobalo body more, then it's up to you. Just remember if you ask the guy at the store to play, he might be anything from poor too good and no matter how bad you think you may be, even just playing some basic chord progressions will give you an idea of how it will sound.

Yes, and as you get better you can do what they should do.

Obviously change the gender of the post if the guy's a girl...
SteakTheMooCow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2008, 12:49 AM   #9
ChrisH
Member
 
ChrisH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,151
Default

Couldnt agree more. I found that the variation on Maton's to be enormous. You must try them all out first. I tried 3 M225's and bought the oldest of the bunch. Most of them sounded dampened, or mellow, and the one I got is bright and screams beauty.

Trust me on this one though, cocobalo is NOT a good wood for a top of a guitar. Don't be fooled by the price, sure its expensive, because cocobalo is expensive, not because its amazingly good. Its in the same feild as walnut. Looks great with its rich large pattern, but man it sounds something aweful. Again, all personal preference.

I would suggest finding an artist you like the most and buying a guitar that is made of similar woods and sounds good:

ie Tommy Emmanual - Maton Guitars -> Maples back neck sides, Spruce top

or Chet Atkins --> Martin --> Mahogony back neck sides, Spruce top

or Peppino D’Agostino --> Seagull --> rosewood, back/sides Spruce top, mahog neck.


Or something a bit different

Roger McGuinn --> Spruce and Rosewood



etc etc
ChrisH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2008, 1:03 AM   #10
PrawnBoy
Member
 
PrawnBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Montmorency 3094
Posts: 1,532
Default

ashton make a good quadbox. That is all.
__________________
Sleep enthusiast, unfit gym junkie and science nerd.

SwitchLANs Admin:
http://www.switchlans.com/ Free Lanning in Melbourne. WINRAR!
PrawnBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2008, 1:12 AM   #11
SteakTheMooCow
(Taking a Break)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,069
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrawnBoy View Post
ashton make a good quadbox. That is all.
Ashton is not synonymous with "good" in my books. They make good entry-level/student stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -weet*di- View Post
Couldnt agree more. I found that the variation on Maton's to be enormous. You must try them all out first. I tried 3 M225's and bought the oldest of the bunch. Most of them sounded dampened, or mellow, and the one I got is bright and screams beauty.

Trust me on this one though, cocobalo is NOT a good wood for a top of a guitar. Don't be fooled by the price, sure its expensive, because cocobalo is expensive, not because its amazingly good. Its in the same feild as walnut. Looks great with its rich large pattern, but man it sounds something aweful. Again, all personal preference.
I think I have heard ONE guitar with cocobalo sound good and from memory it was only the inlay which used it.

When I say "looks and sound" I do not necessarily mean acoustics There are some, but it takes an insane amount of skill to make a beautiful looking acoustic guitar sound beautiful, at least if it contains certain materials. You can make beautiful looking instruments easily (luthite casting anyone?), but the sound tends to hurt the ears.

Unique sound signatures are fantastic. Found in headphones, guitars, basses, woodwinds, voices... it's the combination which makes the band and which makes me love sound so very, very much.
SteakTheMooCow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2008, 8:10 AM   #12
Shags Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,577
Default

Damn, not what i wanted to hear, allthough i really appreciate the advice!.

Unfortunately none of the brands except Ibanez are sold at this store, Anyone want to browse the selection and point me to a good one?

http://www.pacificmusic.com.au/


Their catalogue is here

http://www.pacificmusic.com.au/Catalogue_Flash.asp
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by thetron View Post
Also his SMS speak was terrible and hard guy to understand that you need the internet to translate!
Shags is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2008, 8:14 AM   #13
shredder
Member
 
shredder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Dec 1991
Posts: 8,240
Default

The cocobolo hatred seems a little extreme. Sure it's unconventional as a top - and I'm not endorsing it at all; that Ibanez may well completely suck - but as a back-and-sides tonewood it seems fairly reputable, highly-regarded in fact in many circles. And in the end if a player picks up a guitar and loves it to death, what other people say about it based on theory doesn't mean a thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteakTheMooCow View Post
Ashton is not synonymous with "good" in my books. They make good entry-level/student stuff.
"They make entry-level/student stuff", you mean.
shredder is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2008, 8:43 AM   #14
SteakTheMooCow
(Taking a Break)
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,069
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shredder View Post
The cocobolo hatred seems a little extreme. Sure it's unconventional as a top - and I'm not endorsing it at all; that Ibanez may well completely suck - but as a back-and-sides tonewood it seems fairly reputable, highly-regarded in fact in many circles. And in the end if a player picks up a guitar and loves it to death, what other people say about it based on theory doesn't mean a thing.
My practical experience gave me reason enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by shredder View Post
"They make entry-level/student stuff", you mean.
No, they make good entry-level gear. I have seen worse than Ashton

I saw the AW15CE in the Catalogue for $549.


More expensive are:
Ibanez AW800-NT: http://www.pacificmusic.com.au/Produ...s.asp?ProdID=6
Ibanez AW30ECE NT: http://www.pacificmusic.com.au/Produ...asp?ProdID=384

Last edited by SteakTheMooCow; 11th December 2008 at 8:46 AM.
SteakTheMooCow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11th December 2008, 8:55 AM   #15
shredder
Member
 
shredder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Dec 1991
Posts: 8,240
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteakTheMooCow View Post
My practical experience gave me reason enough
Fair enough. I just wanted to point out that a lot of opinions (some of them quite professional-sounding) out there seem to differ from your experience, and based on that I'd personally be making up my own mind on the issue, if I were considering such a purchase. Which I never would, but that's beside the point!
Quote:
Originally Posted by STMC
No, they make good entry-level gear. I have seen worse than Ashton
True, there's a lot better and a lot worse. I was just noting that you said the word 'good' shouldn't be associated with Ashton, then you went on to use the word in your very next sentence. I know what you meant though.

Last edited by shredder; 11th December 2008 at 8:57 AM.
shredder is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Sign up for a free OCAU account and this ad will go away!

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time now is 8:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. -
OCAU is not responsible for the content of individual messages posted by others.
Other content copyright Overclockers Australia.
OCAU is hosted by Internode!