The BIG Apple iPhone 3G 'S' Discussion

[TrennaHowar]

Originally Posted by YYK

any word on whether flash will be enabled?

Good question! This has kind of flown under the radar for awhile now. Last i heard Apple and adobe were bickering over who's fault it is that it is not working atm. :P

Anyone know anymore ?

[Hohne]

Originally Posted by vindicator

I was hoping for a glowing Apple logo!

Nothing will beat the iPhone for browsing in the foreseeable future as the iPhone has the largest relevant and profitable user base. Seriously, who is building Nokia or Samsung or what ever optimised websites?

Um, Apple's smartphone market share is tiny. Tiny, tiny tiny (way behind Symbian OS and Windows Mobile and RIM (blackberry). People have been building mobile optimised websites for years before the iPhone was thought of.

The relevance in Apple's market share is the type of consumer they're offering, the kind willing to pay more money than anyone else for the same thing, while providing a user base of largely locked-in users. (most users aren't going to be the sort to pirate software because Apple makes it less convenient to do so).

The thing about Nokia, or Samsung, or whoever is no one NEEDs to build a website just for them, they can build a mobile website and it will work on all of them, and the iPhone (except if it uses flash). If they build one just for the iPhone, it's not going to work on other platforms.

Other smartphones have various screen resolutions up to about 800x480. The iPhone has one standard quite low resolution that means at least apps/sites developed for it know what they are going to get, while other platforms have to deal with varying resolutions. But, with resolutions like 800x480, many sites will just look fine and readable on other phones, without any special mobile design, that require zooming to work on the iPhone.

'nothing will beat' the iPhone, it was beaten before release, and has been multiple times since. They're adding features to it now that other phones have had for almost a decade. (And it's still lacking features other smartphones have had since the inception of the term 'smartphone').

Where no other manufacturer is keeping up is the focus on a single product and the marketing budget. I think this will change big time when the long delayed Windows Mobile 7 arrives, and we start to see apps that will work on 95% of smartphones (Flash/Silverlight), but not the iPhone. As well as more consistent product specs (Windows Mobile suffers from too many variations in products).

You have to hand it to Apple, it's an outstanding marketing success, following the path paved by the iPod. Though I think without the iPod before it raising brand awareness, the iPhone would have flopped.

[BlkR]

amazing how it is selling on ebay for $2,500 pre order

[LeFtBehinD]

This update came as expected, all those whinging I would like to know what you're really missing out on.

The same old "Oh gay its not a 200 megapixel camera, therefore its crap" is complete rubbish. My mate who owns one of those new 'Sony Eric 8mp camera phones' takes some of the worst photos I have ever seen. In daylight my 2mp iPhone will out perform it almost every time.

It was never going to be a complete revamp, because the 3G model was so successful. I wont be upgrading to this from a 3G because its not worth the cost to get a few extra features. That's not to say it doesn't blow any other phone on the market out of the water. No phone even comes close to the usability and support that comes with the iPhone.

[Kurosaki]

Originally Posted by heath_303

i dont know why people insist on using a phone camera for a camera, honestly people its a phone !!

if you want to take pictures buy a camera...

Because its so easy to carry my Nikon D40 everywhere with me?

Lets face it most high end camera phones these days are quite passable as a "normal" use point-n-shoot these days. I would expect the 3mp snapper in the iphone to be a least equal to my 3yr old SE K800i, but ultimately its still gona be thumped by something like a Samsung INNOV8 or even my aging N95.

Look at the 3GS by itself this is what I wanted originally from the Iphone3G (feature wise) and its release time might finally tempt me to get one (as my current contract end in Aug). But I still can't help but want to wait for the release of the Sony Ericsson Aino + Idou and Samsung OmniaHD

[dink]

Originally Posted by Hohne

You have to hand it to Apple, it's an outstanding marketing success, following the path paved by the iPod. Though I think without the iPod before it raising brand awareness, the iPhone would have flopped.

I think you'll find that marketing is only a part of the success. The thing that really sells the iPhone is that it just WORKS. I can give it to my mother and she can figure out how to install apps, use apps, play music, etc, without me helping her. If I gave her my winmo phone, it would take 3 days for to even make a simple phone call.

[Hohne]

Originally Posted by W0MB13

Any guesses to what the outright price of an iPhone 3GS will be when they arrive here? Would it be possible to import one outright from the US when they can be unlocked, and have it work fine over here in Australia?

Should work fine everywhere for GSM, as well as everywhere on Telstra Next G, and Voda/Optus in city areas for 3G. (Won't work for 3G on Voda/Optus's regional 3G networks, much like the current iPhone because it's 850/2100 and they use 900/2100 bands.)

The same old "Oh gay its not a 200 megapixel camera, therefore its crap" is complete rubbish. My mate who owns one of those new 'Sony Eric 8mp camera phones' takes some of the worst photos I have ever seen. In daylight my 2mp iPhone will out perform it almost every time.

The iPhone isn't crap because it's only 2mp / 3mp. It's crap because the lens is crap. Almost any camera will take good photos in daylight, when the light starts to diminish, the smaller and worse the lens, the worse you will be hit in image quality. This isn't an Apple thing, it's a physics thing. One very interesting app I did see was one someone used to take pictures using the accellerometer in low-light to take the photo when the phone was most still. Upgrading the megapixel rating is cheap and easy, actually putting in a better lens requires money, so doubt we will ever see that from Apple.

It was never going to be a complete revamp, because the 3G model was so successful.

More like, because that costs money, and they've already got the tooling in to build these. No other manufacturer gets away with building so many units of the same model (others target multiple price points, and can't do so simply by reducing storage, as their storage is user-replaceable), and so it really really brings down their cost.

I wont be upgrading to this from a 3G because its not worth the cost to get a few extra features

Lets face it, if it was worth the cost to get those features for any current iPhone user, they would have bought other phones that had them instead of the original iPhone.

No phone even comes close to the usability and support that comes with the iPhone.

Yes, unfortunately other phones let you do more things, which given human nature means it's easier to do things that you shouldn't. iPhone removes your ability to do these things, which most buyers of them don't notice (those that do buy something else) and in exchange you get something slightly more solid.

[Sipheren]

Yes, unfortunately other phones let you do more things, which given human nature means it's easier to do things that you shouldn't. iPhone removes your ability to do these things, which most buyers of them don't notice (those that do buy something else) and in exchange you get something slightly more solid.

What things do other phone let you do? I have been running 3.0 for months now and I have no need to jailbreak the phone anymore, everything you could really need a phone to do, the iPhone does.....in fact, imo, with the App Store it does more than any other phone can....

[azkgtr]

At the end of the day Apple is there to make money and its goal it to grab as much of the market as it can. Yes if may not have all the software support like the windows Mobile based or the nokia series but i still feel the N series of nokia is just a phone with music/video capabilities. Where as the Samsung yes has a bigger screen but i think that the iphone has better usability. Most iphone users love the iphone due to the amount of custom apps that appeal to the users either games or every day to day stuff.

There is the argument that the iphone is not user friendly in terms accessing system files or drag and drop features but apple has done this for a reason basically for security reasons and DRM issues.

But there will be more users of the iphone than any other single phone in the world. I would think that the iphone has lead the way from the beginning but other companies are catching up and trying to pick up the flaws of the iphone.

[gor_yee]

Hmmm...are we able to upgrade the phones in Australia like what they have for AT & T??I hope so..I'm not really too keen on getting a NEW iphone with only a few changes..

[Hohne]

Originally Posted by dink

I think you'll find that marketing is only a part of the success. The thing that really sells the iPhone is that it just WORKS. I can give it to my mother and she can figure out how to install apps, use apps, play music, etc, without me helping her. If I gave her my winmo phone, it would take 3 days for to even make a simple phone call.

One of my friends, did IT at uni, it took him quite a while to work out how to make a phone call on the iPhone. It's not like he didn't work it out, it's just that coming from a Nokia he was surprised that it wasn't as straight-forward. Installing apps, (ie giving Apple money) was significantly easier. Making a plain phone call on most winmo phones is easier, the lack of integrating a store into the current OS version certainly made installing apps harder. That again is a great Apple success, funneling people through their storefront, if MS did that they would be facing harsh financial penalties.

The biggest disadvantage wimo has at the moment is that the base UI is so dated that it has led to manufacturers making their own (which they can do at least), however this leads to a less consistent experience, making one phone to another seem quite different. In the end most users can get a significantly better experience than they would with a one size fits all OS, but on the other hand the same force that works against Linux works against it. People would rather one consistent, not so great, interface, than 20 almost perfect ones to learn.

Originally Posted by Sipheren

What things do other phone let you do? I have been running 3.0 for months now and I have no need to jailbreak the phone anymore, everything you could really need a phone to do, the iPhone does.....in fact, imo, with the App Store it does more than any other phone can....

The biggest 2 are, run multiple applications simultaneously (coincidentally the ability to do this is also what causes the most problems in other OS's), and run software not 'approved' by the OS maker.

Until now (OS3.0), other phones let you
- Record video
- MMS
- Voice guided GPS
- Tethering (can't believe this is a 'feature' that it didn't have.
- Copy paste (again !)

Some things other phones still have
- Physical keyboards
- Higher resolution screens
- Video calling
- replaceable batteries
- expandable storage
(many more I can't think of off the top of my head)

with the App Store it does more than any other phone can....

Other phones have thousands of times more apps, they're just not in the one 'store' so there's less user awareness. Again, that you think this, is again evidence of the marketing victory.

But there will be more users of the iphone than any other single phone in the world.

Undoubtedly true, but largely irrelevant. It makes it well known, but as a software developer, what is important is the prevalence of a particular standardised platform, whether these platforms are all made by the same company or not is neither here nor there, but ultimately better for the consumer. Other manufacturers DO need to standardise on things like screen resolution though, which it does appear will be very close to happening soon, otherwise they will be behind. Things like screen physical size / form factor / hardware keyboard are all things that they can vary that will take market share away from Apple, but having other consistent features (hardware capabilities) also help them compete.

At the end of the day Apple is there to make money and its goal it to grab as much of the market as it can.

And they are doing incredibly well ! Not perhaps as well as many people 'believe' they are, but still very well in a competitive market.

Most iphone users love the iphone due to the amount of custom apps that appeal to the users either games or every day to day stuff.

The success here isn't in the number of apps, it's that they're at the users fingertips, and Apple has their fingertips on the user's wallet (and thus so do developers). It's win/win/win for the User/Apple/Developers. You have to hand it to Apple, this is something MS could have done 7 years ago but never did.

I would think that the iphone has lead the way from the beginning but other companies are catching up and trying to pick up the flaws of the iphone.

The flaws of the iPhone are largely things other phones already do well, other manufacturers are playing catch-up on the things the iPhone does do well. I don't think we will see other phones that do all the things the iPhone does well, do them as well until at least 2010.

On the other hand I don't think Apple CAN catch up on what the other manufacturers do well at least without a larger handset variation.

There is the argument that the iphone is not user friendly in terms accessing system files or drag and drop features but apple has done this for a reason basically for security reasons and DRM issues.

It's not really security, but DRM, app-store funneling, as well as the old 'let them do less, they'll have less to stuff up'.

[DarkYendor]

Originally Posted by Hohne

Um, Apple's smartphone market share is tiny. Tiny, tiny tiny (way behind Symbian OS and Windows Mobile and RIM (blackberry). People have been building mobile optimised websites for years before the iPhone was thought of.

Three months after the first iPhone (i.e. iPhone 2G) was released:




Yep, real tiny!

[Sipheren]

Originally Posted by Hohne

The biggest 2 are, run multiple applications simultaneously (coincidentally the ability to do this is also what causes the most problems in other OS's), and run software not 'approved' by the OS maker.

Until now (OS3.0), other phones let you
- Record video
- MMS
- Voice guided GPS
- Tethering (can't believe this is a 'feature' that it didn't have.
- Copy paste (again !)

Some things other phones still have
- Physical keyboards
- Higher resolution screens
- Video calling
- replaceable batteries
- expandable storage
(many more I can't think of off the top of my head)



Other phones have thousands of times more apps, they're just not in the one 'store' so there's less user awareness. Again, that you think this, is again evidence of the marketing victory.

I don't really see the need for multi apps running, the only one which needs to, and does, is the media player, it can run while using Safari or while using any of the other standard apps.

I think physical keyboards are outdated and just another thing to break, give me the touch screen any day.

I think you will find the iPhone screen's resolution is sufficient for the size, having an ultra high resolution is just stupid on such a small screen.

Never done video calling, even when I had a phone that could

The only point there that's valid imo is the storage, I have almost used all my 16GB and would love to be able to expand without buying a new phone.

Also, I have only used one Windows based phone, What extra apps could it have, there are meant to be 50,000 apps in the App Store...

[davidw89]

Disappointing, might wait it out and see the reviews that come in before blowing <$1k for this.

Been hoping for flash on the camera, oh well = (
BUT why didn't they put an iSight camera in the front of the iPhone for video conferencing??
No OLED, wasn't surprised, maybe next year.

[[KEi]SoVeReIgN]

Originally Posted by Hohne

One of my friends, did IT at uni, it took him quite a while to work out how to make a phone call on the iPhone. It's not like he didn't work it out, it's just that coming from a Nokia he was surprised that it wasn't as straight-forward. Installing apps, (ie giving Apple money) was significantly easier. Making a plain phone call on most winmo phones is easier, the lack of integrating a store into the current OS version certainly made installing apps harder. That again is a great Apple success, funneling people through their storefront, if MS did that they would be facing harsh financial penalties.

I'm sorry if your friend couldn't work out how to call someone within 5 seconds of picking up an iphone he needs his head checked.