Heroes of Newerth (General Discussion) - Now Retail

[Comma]

Only real character I had problems with key mapping with is Soulstealer (Nevermore) since you have to go and used d/f/g for his AoE damage attack.

I can only win when I have team mates who listen!

[purehybrid]

His counter-helix (spinny shit, dont know the new name) aoe is slightly larger. He has lower armor base tho I think, so he can't do the lame pre-initial-creep-wave easy first blood anymore.

Originally Posted by Comma

Only real character I had problems with key mapping with is Soulstealer (Nevermore) since you have to go and used d/f/g for his AoE damage attack.

Had the same issue, couldnt get used to it cos they were off to the side a bit. So I changed them to z/x/c and it works nicely

[hvalac]

Originally Posted by purehybrid

Never had a problem with skills 'not hitting'. You may be used to playing dota with a ping of 50, however... whereas your ping to HoN will be much higher. The worst I had, was baiting a Juggernaut's (Now Swiftblade) omnislash, with the intention to use my lothars (now assasin's shroud) to stealth cancel it. Unfortunately his ult strikes so quickly now that my delay+the fade time on stealth meant he got 3 attacks in and killed me before I stealthed

US West give us pings of around 200
Other US servers around 250
JPN/EU servers 300+

Despite this, it still feels very responsive, and the pings are very stable, so it isn't too hard to compensate for. It doesn't spike at all, so once you get in the rythm its pretty smooth sailing

Yes have to agree with you and just about everyone else, the delay can be a killer sometimes but at this stage it's something we r just going to have to get used to.

1 thing i have noticed(pings)
JPN 190-210
USW 200-230
Other US 250-350
EU 400+

Not sure why but i get slightly better latency on Japan servers as opposed to USW servers, where as a mate of mine gets awful pings on Japan servers and the same pings as me on USW.

[string]

I had the animation play and not hit at all. With the War3 engine this is impossible. A key element of the War3 engine is that if you cast/attack within the maximum range then it will fire, even if they've moved out of the range by the time the animation is complete.

I have near 300ms ping and just as much delay as when I host DotA games (i.e. none). I have a feeling they have a client side predictive model going on to prevent delay - not a good thing for a game like this which should have predictible behavior from client actions IMO.

[purehybrid]

Originally Posted by string

A key element of the War3 engine is that if you cast/attack within the maximum range then it will fire, even if they've moved out of the range by the time the animation is complete.

It still does. Delay fucked you.

[noclip]

i played two games of it last night for the first time. i like it, i'm a dota addict and still working out all the gui etc.

the problem i have is that i find it hard to tell the heros appart and trying to work out what each hero is in dota. in big fights i was confused . i guess i need to play some more.

[string]

Originally Posted by purehybrid

It still does.

What the hell are you on about? A spell now can be successfully cast and not hit. In the War3 engine this isn't possible. With 300ms ping and zero "delay" giving orders, there is clearly an incongruence in the network system.

[zebu]

a friend gave me an invite so i tried it out tonight

i have played dota a handfull of times at lans but never really got into it

i joined a game that had the word noob friendly in its title

they called a kick vote on me for not being good enough and feeding too much

tops game so far :/

[frieten]

im sick of bloody devourer, so rigged!

[Comma]

Originally Posted by zebu

a friend gave me an invite so i tried it out tonight

i have played dota a handfull of times at lans but never really got into it

i joined a game that had the word noob friendly in its title

they called a kick vote on me for not being good enough and feeding too much

tops game so far :/

Normally I ask if anyone's new to the game, that way we can offer more pointers towards them, rather then get super annoyed that they stayed quiet, ruined ganks, fed, or made us lose.

Anyhow, on the out of range subject. Projectiles cast that have the target move out of range give a red text of 'Out of Range' above their head now.

Spell wise, yes, delay comes into effect. Think Pyromancer (Lina) using his AoE skill, it has a cast time and timing comes into effect, and sometimes it hits people who obviously aren't in it, and sometimes it misses people who obviously are.

I currently have a problem with the speed of Devourer (Pudge's) Hook skill, since it goes to fast, AND it can hit guys on the way back. As well as the collision size of the hook, coupled with the collision size of Valkyrie's arrow. Most probably just some getting use to so I can juke it properly.

Another thing I dislike is selecting other non-you objects displays them in the bottom right of the screen, so I can speed check if an agility hero has a Lothar (Shroud) or whatever.

@purehybrid : if you have a shroud, you probably shouldn't EVER have Jugg (Swiftblade) land an ultimate on you. You just see him and press it if you're all alone, or predict if you're laning against him and hug some creeps to reduce the chance of him hitting you multiple times. Unless it's your intention to use it after he ulti's so he wastes it, but then you're just gambling on reflexes.

[-=N0N@ME420=-]

Originally Posted by zebu

a friend gave me an invite so i tried it out tonight

i have played dota a handfull of times at lans but never really got into it

i joined a game that had the word noob friendly in its title

they called a kick vote on me for not being good enough and feeding too much

tops game so far :/

It's beta :P they're still working on the Public skill rating, the problem is that as everyone is new and has a low pub skill rating thus ex dota pros and complete noobs (like me) are being thrown in together.

I've worked out quite a bit and are smashing away with a thunderbringer, I appear to be not causing to many problems anymore but I still get the occasional

"are you dumb???"
"what?"
"you need to move when he sends out a seed"
"i c"

not as bad as when we had players with voip, they were raging at some poor noobie

[TigaHawk]

Originally Posted by -=N0N@ME420=-

It's beta :P they're still working on the Public skill rating, the problem is that as everyone is new and has a low pub skill rating thus ex dota pros and complete noobs (like me) are being thrown in together.

I've worked out quite a bit and are smashing away with a thunderbringer, I appear to be not causing to many problems anymore but I still get the occasional

"are you dumb???"
"what?"
"you need to move when he sends out a seed"
"i c"

not as bad as when we had players with voip, they were raging at some poor noobie

You need both PSR and to view the individual players stats to get sortof an idea on what kind of player they are, PSR is just win/loss - so because its such a team orientated game, u could be a great player but your team was lacking...


String if you're against devourer and you're playing bloodhunter/have him on your team - tell him to silence the mofo when he puts his aoe cloud thing on early game

it silences him so he cant turn it off and generaly causes a fatailty :P

For the newbies who havent played dota at all, unfortunately because theres no tutorial and because people are pricks, try to join "noob only" games (green army badge V looking thing in a circle) and when you get in and join a team, in the list of people in the lobby, right click their name and view stats - people with UNDER 1.0 kills/deaths and havent got like 100+kills/deaths are genuine noobs, people who have higher htan that are players who've played for a bit but are there to stop you so they can stroke their epeen and think their awesome. So.. Try to join the team with the 1.0+ players (ignore PSR rating for now, it sux) or leave and find another server if you're in the istuation where theres a few 1.0 or "good" players on 1 team and you can only join the other.

To Comma - Go to options - keybindings - you can change it there. I also agree i dont like the "i need 10fingers to play thisguy" part of Soulstealer - if i could be botherd i'd setup his attacks to mousebindings :P

For you Dota people, this might help with adjusting.


Legion (23)

Agility (6+1)

Night Hound.......= Stealth Assassin
Swiftblade........= Juggernaut (healing ward replaced with single target version of Axe's counterattack)
Magebane..........= Anti-Mage
Moon Queen........= Moon Rider(Luna)
Wildsoul..........= Lone Druid(Syllabear)
Valkyrie..........= PotM(Mirana)

Intelligence (6+2)

Blacksmith...-....= Ogre Magi
Thunderbringer....= Lord of Olympia(Zeus)
Pollywog priest...= Rhasta
Pyromancer........= Slayer(Lina Inverse)
Tempest...........= Enigma
Ophelia...........= Chen

Strength (7+1)

Armadon...........= Bristleback
Behemoth..........= Earthshaker
Hammerstorm.......= Rogue Knight(Sven)
Jereziah.........~= Omniknight (passive slow aura changed to passive slow similar to admirals passive)
Legionnaire.......= Axe
Pebbles..........~= Stone Giant(Tiny) (stun passive no longer stuns, but reduces debuff time)
Keeper of Forest ~= Treant Protector (armor/regen buff replaced with pick up tree, eyes no longer truesight, but heals nearby units)

New heroes (4)

Scout............1. Vanish (similar to bounty hunter WW, except increases movespeed by 10%/20%/30%/40%)
..................2. Place Electric Eye (sees invis)
..................3. 2x crit passive + evade (similar to bounty hunter passive)
..................4. Ulti: Replica of Sniper ulti



Nymphora..........1. AoE - heal+dmg (360heal/dmg? on lvl 4)
..................2. Next cast cost 0 mana (active buff)
..................3. Stun in a line (+ increased atk speed buff depending on amount of units hit)
..................4. Ulti: Mass TP anywhere (0/1/2 heroes)



Zephyr(Owlman)....1. Leap, damage in a line + moves enemy slightly
..................2. Cyclones on creepkill, heals self when consumed
..................3. Increased evasion+chance to return ranged dmg. (active)
..................4. Ulti: AoE - Increase team movespeed, reduce enemy move speed



Predator..........1. Venomous leap (DoT+slow+leap)
..................2. Activatable magic immunity (stone skin)
..................3. Naix' selfheal + dmg
..................4. Ulti: TBA



Hellbourne (21)

Agility (4+3)

Chronos...........= Faceless Void
Slither...........= Venomancer
Blood Hunter......= Bloodseeker
Soulstealer.......= Shadow Fiend

Intelligence (6+1)

Defiler...........= Death Prophet(Krobelus)
Glacius...........= Crystal Maiden (frostbite spell now stuns/silences)
Hellbringer......~= Warlock (different DoT + "damage sharing" spell heals self + slow not channeling & AoE)
Demented Shaman...= Shadow Priest
Voodoo Jester....~= Witch Doctor (AoE heal replaced with Warlock's single target HoT/DoT)
Torturer.........~= Tormented Soul(Leshrac) (Lightning replaced by nuke that pulls units together)

Strength (5+2)

Accursed..........= Lord of Avernus(Abaddon)
Devourer..........= Butcher(Pudge)
Pharaoh...........= Clockwerk Goblin
Pestilence........= Slithereen Guard(Slardar)
Warbeast..........= Lycanthrope

New heroes (6)

Arachna...........1. Slow attack similar to Drow's frost arrows
..................2. Increase resistance to magic+remove debuffs (active)
..................3. Ranged damage increase aura (28% on lvl 4)
..................4. Ulti: Throw spider on enemy that deals moderate physical damage for 3,4,5(?) seconds



Madman............1. Weaver invis
..................2. Boomerang charge thingy deals about 225 dmg on lvl 4(?)
..................3. Jugger crit
..................4. Ulti: Berserk (same as Troll Warlord's ulti)


Dark Lady.........1. Increase damage dealt for X seconds + silences opponent when hit (active selfbuff)
..................2. Nuke that slows the enemy (275dmg? on lvl 4)
..................3. Leap that does the equivalent of 1 hit on each unit in a line
..................4. Ulti: Reduces all enemy heroes sight range + removes shared vision between all enemy heroes



Puppet Master.....1. Hold enemy with strings for up to 5.25(?) secs, reduces mobility
..................2. Force target unit to attack closest unit (friend/foe doesn't matter)
..................3. Every 5th attack deals upto 200% more dmg. + passive dmg. increase
..................4. Ulti: Creates a puppet linked to an enemy and takes up to 200% extra damage from hits.



Electrician.......1. Similar to Rhasta grip
..................2. Mana shield, similar to Gorgon/Medusa's mana shield, but better/stronger
..................3. Steal mana from nearby enemies (AoE)
..................4. Ulti: Slow target enemy + remove buffs (similar to purge) / Increase speed of target friendly + remove debuffs



Kraken............1. Same as tidehunter nuke
..................2. Charge (knocks aside enemies + deals damage)
..................3. Tides' splash passive
..................4. Ulti: Creates 2 whirlpools, one at target location and one on self, after ~4 seconds anyone near either will be TP'd to targeted location

[teddy.bear-fate]

I just had a quick question as i haven't really checked myself in game/on their forums but will they allow offline LAN play once its released or will you have to be online to play?

[Elyzion]

Played a couple of games last night, i've never played dota or what ever, its confusing fun but i don't really get it.

Was better at age of empires 2.

[Comma]

Originally Posted by Elyzion

Played a couple of games last night, i've never played dota or what ever, its confusing fun but i don't really get it.

Was better at age of empires 2.

It's an intense resource management and denial game.