Concrete Slab water cooler loop - Update Results are in!

gigs · 1st August 2009, 12:25 PM

Well the slab gets poured on Wednesday so I thought I would sink 6 meters of copper pipe in the slab so that I can run my water loop through it when the house is finished. I hope to have water year round at about 16deg. No need for radiators or fans with chilled water coming straight out of the slab

Hope there isnt any condensation issues but I dont think the water will be cold enough....

Any ideas on how I can measure the heat in watts that this can obsorb over a period of 3hrs? some pics:

Click to view full size!

Click to view full size!

----------------------------

Results are in:

here are the results for today:

test start time 9am
Water temp at start 10 deg (after 10min of running the pump with no heat load).
Water volume in the revserve 2litres, water volume in the loop .5 to 1 litre. Total volume 2.5 to 3 litres.
Heat load 150 watt fish tank heater. This will simulate very closely the heat load I will be putting on the system as i7 creates about 130 watts of heat.

The test system is still running but I don't think it will change from 17 deg that it has been running for the last 4 hours+

Click to view full size!

So what does this test tell me / what can I expect?

Firstly, Tasmanian agricultural areas (soil) have a mean annual temperature of 11-13 deg C. So I can expect the concrete foundation to sit at about 14-16 deg year round. When the house is built adding a few deg for ambient heat in the house. I have shown that this system will hold 150 watt load at about +7 deg above concrete temperature.

So I can expect water for my PC cooling loop to be about 21-23 deg C year round. I was hoping for a bit lower in the range of 16 deg and I'm sure this would be possible with a longer loop.

My current water loop (standard setup with 120.3 radiator and CPU block) sits at about 10 deg above ambient air temp giving me 29-31 deg C coolant temp.

After all those variables are taken into account. I can expect to have chilled water 8-10 deg C below my current water loop which should give me quite a lot more head room for overclocking and best of all NO NOISY FANS blasting air through a heat exchanger.

A big thanks to the people that posted constructive comments and offered help with this project

Click to view full size!

JTF · 1st August 2009, 12:44 PM

No idea on measuring, but it should work well...
Love the "forward thinking" though...

millsy_c · 1st August 2009, 2:03 PM

That's extreme! Can't wait to see the results!

Concept CBF · 1st August 2009, 2:21 PM

How much water will be in the loop in total?
I assume you are also putting a tank of some sort down there as well?

MadMonkOfFunk · 1st August 2009, 2:22 PM

Great idea, but your going to need a good pump to keep a steady flow. Can't wait to see what temps you get though.

gigs · 1st August 2009, 2:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTF

No idea on measuring, but it should work well...
Love the "forward thinking" though...

Thanks JTF

Quote:

Originally Posted by millsy_c

That's extreme! Can't wait to see the results!

Yer Millsy me too. TF2 will run sweet as lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Concept CBF

How much water will be in the loop in total?
I assume you are also putting a tank of some sort down there as well?

I have to measure it but I think about 3 litres. Im gonna have a reserve above ground probably on the floor next to the pump.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MadMonkOfFunk

Great idea, but your going to need a good pump to keep a steady flow. Can't wait to see what temps you get though.

I was thinking a decent aquarium / pond pump like an ehim 1260 or similar should be up to. The head will only be about 1200mm so its not a big task for a decent pump. Just have to find a nice quiet one

gigs · 1st August 2009, 2:42 PM

These pumps seem like the go. About $150 - $200, 3m head, low wattage (30watts), adjustable water output and silent.

http://www.eheim.com/base/eheim/inha...ail_28394_ehen

JTF · 1st August 2009, 2:58 PM

Reliable pumps,
Are you going to use it just to circulate the loop and tank, or the whole system ?

th3_hawk · 1st August 2009, 3:14 PM

You know I have always considered that as an option in a new house, just never quite got there.

What I have also thought about it running some copper pipe through the wooden floors and under the house to put the radiator, fan and pump under the floor where it's much cooler than inside AND where it just doesn't matter how much noise it makes (within reason).

n3wbi379 · 1st August 2009, 3:16 PM

Nice 1 but will this effect the slab in any way and the warranty on ur new home?
Might wanna check that out .... Other wise niceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

gigs · 1st August 2009, 3:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTF

Reliable pumps,
Are you going to use it just to circulate the loop and tank, or the whole system ?

Was gonna circulate the whole system with the one pump. The less pumps in the system the less heat they can xfer into the loop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by th3_hawk

You know I have always considered that as an option in a new house, just never quite got there.

What I have also thought about it running some copper pipe through the wooden floors and under the house to put the radiator, fan and pump under the floor where it's much cooler than inside AND where it just doesn't matter how much noise it makes (within reason).

Oh well maybe next time you build

Quote:

Originally Posted by n3wbi379

Nice 1 but will this effect the slab in any way and the warranty on ur new home?
Might wanna check that out .... Other wise niceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I think running copper in a slab is nothing too unusual. I'm doing the house as owner builder so warranty is not a problem

The tradies are like WTF though

and Im going to separate the copper so that it is not touching the steel reinforcing bar.

JTF · 1st August 2009, 3:46 PM

Depends what, and how many, waterblocks you're going to use, flow through the blocks makes a reasonable difference, you could always use the smaller of the 3 pumps you listed inside a reservoir, then run a little Mcp355 for the Pc loop...
Then you can have the 240v pump running all the time (saves having to remember to switch it on)..

Smoke87 · 1st August 2009, 4:02 PM

Make sure council and the completion certificate guy don't see it or you will be ripping that slab up and re pouring the entire section. Because what you've done right there while ingenious is illegal in the eyes of the scum.

dazzawul · 1st August 2009, 4:06 PM

Who turns it off? :P

But yeah, I'd be interested in how you build this loop, personally I would probably set up some sort of tank being circulated through the loop in the slab, and a secondary loop feeding out of the tank.
Though then I might get lazy and just plumb the loop straight into the computer :P

Do tell!

Orphan · 1st August 2009, 4:28 PM

Interesting idea to use it for cooling your PC, make sure the sides of your slap are shielded from the sun and you can expect slap temps of as low as 12 degrees most days and often cooler depending on your climate, due to the volume it should be quite effective at drawing the heat out of the water you pump through it though I would consider running a few more loops. A better option than copper is to use PEX piping which is used in radiant floor heating set ups, it won't corrode or crack/rupture as the slap expands and contracts and you can loop it around much easier than copper but it doesn't have the thermal transfer of copper so that would be a downside. Only downside is your limited to setting your PC up there and what do you do if you ever want to move it or take it over to someones for a lan? Do you have a standard radiator somewhere?

1st August 2009, 12:25 PM	#1
gigs Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tassie Posts: 1,305	Concrete Slab water cooler loop - Update Results are in! Well the slab gets poured on Wednesday so I thought I would sink 6 meters of copper pipe in the slab so that I can run my water loop through it when the house is finished. I hope to have water year round at about 16deg. No need for radiators or fans with chilled water coming straight out of the slab Hope there isnt any condensation issues but I dont think the water will be cold enough.... Any ideas on how I can measure the heat in watts that this can obsorb over a period of 3hrs? some pics: Click to view full size! Click to view full size! ---------------------------- Results are in: here are the results for today: test start time 9am Water temp at start 10 deg (after 10min of running the pump with no heat load). Water volume in the revserve 2litres, water volume in the loop .5 to 1 litre. Total volume 2.5 to 3 litres. Heat load 150 watt fish tank heater. This will simulate very closely the heat load I will be putting on the system as i7 creates about 130 watts of heat. The test system is still running but I don't think it will change from 17 deg that it has been running for the last 4 hours+ Click to view full size! So what does this test tell me / what can I expect? Firstly, Tasmanian agricultural areas (soil) have a mean annual temperature of 11-13 deg C. So I can expect the concrete foundation to sit at about 14-16 deg year round. When the house is built adding a few deg for ambient heat in the house. I have shown that this system will hold 150 watt load at about +7 deg above concrete temperature. So I can expect water for my PC cooling loop to be about 21-23 deg C year round. I was hoping for a bit lower in the range of 16 deg and I'm sure this would be possible with a longer loop. My current water loop (standard setup with 120.3 radiator and CPU block) sits at about 10 deg above ambient air temp giving me 29-31 deg C coolant temp. After all those variables are taken into account. I can expect to have chilled water 8-10 deg C below my current water loop which should give me quite a lot more head room for overclocking and best of all NO NOISY FANS blasting air through a heat exchanger. A big thanks to the people that posted constructive comments and offered help with this project Click to view full size! Click to view full size! Click to view full size! __________________ \| Xeon W3580-ES @ 4.6Ghz 24/7 HT on \| Kayl Frozen SS \| EVGA Classified 760 \| 6gb Corsair Dominator GT 2000 C8 \| 2 X Geforce GTX295 \| Corsair HX-1000 \| 4 x VelociRaptor 150Gb RAID 0 \| 30" Dell 3008WFP \| 32821 3DMark06 \| Concrete Cooling <--- Most users ever online was 2,076, 27th August 2009 at 5:20 AM Trades: Too many to list. PM me for details Last edited by gigs; 31st August 2009 at 9:43 AM. Reason: update with results

1st August 2009, 12:44 PM	#2
JTF Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Brisbane 4118 Posts: 498	No idea on measuring, but it should work well... Love the "forward thinking" though... __________________ Gigabyte X58 Extreme, i7 920 @ 4.2, Tri Sli GTX275's all H20 cooled.

1st August 2009, 2:03 PM	#3
millsy_c Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Brisbane! Posts: 1,140	That's extreme! Can't wait to see the results! __________________ My Box - i5 750 (stock for now) 4gb Generic DDR3 1333 RAM, Corsair HX620, Radeon HD4870 1gb, 7600gs, Asus P5P75D, 160gb & 1x320gb HDD's, 2x640gb, 2x808gb hdd's, DVD Writer,X530's, 2xS2409W, 1x2243BW+ (portrait)... RIP 8800gtx... damn you 185.85 drivers

1st August 2009, 2:21 PM	#4
Concept CBF Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Behind you Posts: 439	How much water will be in the loop in total? I assume you are also putting a tank of some sort down there as well? __________________ i7920@4.2GHZ--6GB Kingston Hyperx-- Asus P6T-- GTX260216 SLI-- 3.5TBHDD-- Tj07 Watercooled

1st August 2009, 2:22 PM	#5
MadMonkOfFunk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Brisbane Posts: 116	Great idea, but your going to need a good pump to keep a steady flow. Can't wait to see what temps you get though. __________________ Heating: i7 920 \| P6T \| 6GB \| 1TB \| GTX285 \| HX-620 \| TJ07 Cooling: HK 3.0 \| EK-285 \| MCP355 \| RX360 \| EK-Multi 250 Next Project: Photography

1st August 2009, 2:42 PM	#7
gigs Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tassie Posts: 1,305	These pumps seem like the go. About $150 - $200, 3m head, low wattage (30watts), adjustable water output and silent. http://www.eheim.com/base/eheim/inha...ail_28394_ehen __________________ \| Xeon W3580-ES @ 4.6Ghz 24/7 HT on \| Kayl Frozen SS \| EVGA Classified 760 \| 6gb Corsair Dominator GT 2000 C8 \| 2 X Geforce GTX295 \| Corsair HX-1000 \| 4 x VelociRaptor 150Gb RAID 0 \| 30" Dell 3008WFP \| 32821 3DMark06 \| Concrete Cooling <--- Most users ever online was 2,076, 27th August 2009 at 5:20 AM Trades: Too many to list. PM me for details

1st August 2009, 2:58 PM	#8
JTF Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Brisbane 4118 Posts: 498	Reliable pumps, Are you going to use it just to circulate the loop and tank, or the whole system ? __________________ Gigabyte X58 Extreme, i7 920 @ 4.2, Tri Sli GTX275's all H20 cooled.

1st August 2009, 3:14 PM	#9
th3_hawk Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: [SYD] Campbelltown Posts: 599	You know I have always considered that as an option in a new house, just never quite got there. What I have also thought about it running some copper pipe through the wooden floors and under the house to put the radiator, fan and pump under the floor where it's much cooler than inside AND where it just doesn't matter how much noise it makes (within reason). __________________ "Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake." Windows 2008 Server machine ticking away in the background providing mass storage for a couple of MacBook Pro's Got a VW? VWWatercooled Currently for Sale: Nothin in Particular

1st August 2009, 3:16 PM	#10
n3wbi379 Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Melb Posts: 2,837	Nice 1 but will this effect the slab in any way and the warranty on ur new home? Might wanna check that out .... Other wise niceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee __________________ 3D06PB - 29499 FullHD

1st August 2009, 3:46 PM	#12
JTF Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Brisbane 4118 Posts: 498	Depends what, and how many, waterblocks you're going to use, flow through the blocks makes a reasonable difference, you could always use the smaller of the 3 pumps you listed inside a reservoir, then run a little Mcp355 for the Pc loop... Then you can have the 240v pump running all the time (saves having to remember to switch it on).. __________________ Gigabyte X58 Extreme, i7 920 @ 4.2, Tri Sli GTX275's all H20 cooled.

1st August 2009, 4:06 PM	#14
dazzawul Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: the sutho shire (w00t) Posts: 1,296	Who turns it off? :P But yeah, I'd be interested in how you build this loop, personally I would probably set up some sort of tank being circulated through the loop in the slab, and a secondary loop feeding out of the tank. Though then I might get lazy and just plumb the loop straight into the computer :P Do tell! __________________ Q9550 @ 3.4 \| EK Supreme LT \| Gigabyte GA-P45-DS4 \| 8 gigs Adata DDR 2 800 \| GTX 285 702/1548/1323 \| 4.2 TB of storage \| Audigy eX platinum \| Corsair HX620

1st August 2009, 4:28 PM	#15
Orphan Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 789	Interesting idea to use it for cooling your PC, make sure the sides of your slap are shielded from the sun and you can expect slap temps of as low as 12 degrees most days and often cooler depending on your climate, due to the volume it should be quite effective at drawing the heat out of the water you pump through it though I would consider running a few more loops. A better option than copper is to use PEX piping which is used in radiant floor heating set ups, it won't corrode or crack/rupture as the slap expands and contracts and you can loop it around much easier than copper but it doesn't have the thermal transfer of copper so that would be a downside. Only downside is your limited to setting your PC up there and what do you do if you ever want to move it or take it over to someones for a lan? Do you have a standard radiator somewhere?