Any QNX users out there?

Nickopen · 16th August 2002, 3:27 PM

Hi,

I am doing work in my PhD requiring the use of QNX (a POSIX compliant RTOS) - just wondering if anyone else out there in OCAU land uses this or if I am the only one! It seems that the world wide community of QNX users is limited to a handful of military projects and some robotics enthusiasts.

Nickopen · 16th August 2002, 4:05 PM

Nice to see someone uses it!

yeah, no apps is a bit annoying, but really, its an OS for doing REAL programming with, none of this everyday workstation stuff!

Is anyone out there using it for "something"? My project is really boring... something that is a little more interesting is this...

http://ece.uwaterloo.ca/~warg/ <- Waterloo Aerial Robotics Group

Leopard · 17th August 2002, 12:31 AM

I downloaded it, installed it, didn't know what to do with it, deleted it.
Still got the cd though, wil have a spare computer later on this year...hmmm any good for a firewall/gateway/server?

SpecGen · 17th August 2002, 12:10 PM

Just out of interest, what are the uses for a RTOS? Why is it any better than say a cut down linux distro?

That was not meant to promote linux in any way, I was just using it as an example. You can fit linux onto a floppy disk, where that QNX ISO is almost 200MB, so it couldn't be space. Its microkernel based, which i'm sure would have its advantages, but I'm sure you could get the L4 microkernel running with something as well.

I'm simply interested, I've heard about RTOS's for a while but never actually found out what they were used for or anything.

Epoch · 17th August 2002, 3:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SpecGen
You can fit linux onto a floppy disk, where that QNX ISO is almost 200MB, so it couldn't be space.

You can fit QNX on a floppy, too.

Quote:

I'm simply interested, I've heard about RTOS's for a while but never actually found out what they were used for or anything.

Embedded systems, mostly. Applications where stability is really mission critical - military computers, medical systems, etc.

http://www.qnx.com/demodisk/applications.html

Unregisturd · 17th August 2002, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Epoch
Embedded systems, mostly. Applications where stability is really mission critical - military computers, medical systems, etc.

I would suggest that Real Time Operating Systems are useful in exactly the areas their name suggests - tasks where things have to happen right on time.

Of course stability and reliability are non-functional requirements that are incredibly important no matter what. But you can't go using Linux, Windows, Unix, MacOS or any other flavour of non-RTOS for such things as nuclear reactors.

What happens when the reactor core starts overheating and the cooling rods need to be repositioned? A non-RTOS may have any number of things going on... and regardless of task priority, you cannot guarantee that the one to move the cooling rods will be executed right on time. Hence, we have RTOS's.

SpecGen · 18th August 2002, 10:21 AM

Thanks for the replys people.

I probably should have researched a bit more before I said anything, I had no idea you could fit it on a floppy.

Thanks Epoch/Unregisturd.

I guess there would really be no practical advantage over a non-RTOS using it on the desktop after what you've said, still looks interesting though.

getafix123 · 19th August 2002, 9:18 PM

hey nickopen,
wow glad to see QNX users here. i used QNX about 9 yrs ago for process control apps. love it and prefered it over other RTOS like IRMX etc.

hey, whats ur PhD about? what u using QNX for, medical, nuklear, process control/scada?

I used QNX to interface with Allen-Bradley, Honeywell and ABB PLC and DCCS systems for research in advance process control. (MIMO type)

cheers

MM

Nickopen · 19th August 2002, 9:45 PM

for some reason i didn't get notified of the replies to this thread until just then... so I just assumed that no-one cared and ignored the thread - sorry ppl!

As for what I am doing, the main part of my PhD is data collection and analysis for some (very large) hydraulic excavators at a mine site, specifically looking for the practices that cause excessive duty on the machines (sounds boring, but its actually pretty interesting when you get into the nitty gritty!). Its all going onto small form PC104 3.5" SBC's (the greatest invention since the laptop in my opion - heaps smaller than micro atx and often with as good stuff!)

We are using a RTOS because we want to be able to have it running 24/7 for a couple of years at least, with minimal reboots etc, mainly so that we can dial it up over a satfone and download the data and/or update the software at our will, well, that and the fact that QNX has to be the EASIEST OS in the world for writing device drivers for!

As for fitting it onto little floppies and stuff, its great - it is a true micro kernel - you don't want a filesystem driver, keyboard or mouse support? then don't include them! The image can be as small as you want it to be, then again, you can include everythign under the sun and its still only ~200 Mb!

getafix123 · 19th August 2002, 9:57 PM

aha good ole data collection? are these analog inputs or digital inputs or mix? my projects were process industry related but similar in data aquisition concepts, and we used QNX for collection from PLC and Intelluitions' FIX-DMACS for UI. was pretty kick ass( about 9 yrs ago)! and MatLab for hard core analysis part! typical system wud measure / monitor about 36 AI, 192 DI, and 60 odd RTDs.

good ole engg days ... god damn nostalgia

Nickopen · 20th August 2002, 8:57 AM

hehe, yes, isn't data acquisition fun! We have 36 analogue inputs and just one digital... we are majorly over-spec-ing the system though with the ultimate (and probably unrealistic) aim of complete system automation one day in the future. And yes, matlab is my new best freind... but I am not looking forward to the day when I have to translate all the code into C++ - do you realise how hard its going to be to invert a matrix a in C, when in matlab, all you do is inv(A)?

getafix123 · 20th August 2002, 11:07 AM

this may help ya with QnX from my old bookmarks

http://www.nyx.net/~smanley/realtime/realtime.html

so . what kinda AI conversions are those good ole 4-20 ma inputs 10 bit resolution? 0-4093 on 0-100% scale? or different kinda!

converting from matlab to c . ouch thats like ferrari to BMW316i

complete automation? given the numbe of AI us got, i guess Sinlge Loop Controllers wont cut in alone, u would need DMC or Equiv MIMO system.

Betch ya, u will love all those PRBS step testing and modelling to get ur system matirx for target set points on SISOs.

Not many aussie teams researching in that field (infact only one i am aware of is/was Uni Melb Chem Engg for FCCU modelling).

and yeah the bible ... Luyben' "Process MOdelling Simulation & Control for Chemical Engineers" Mc-Graw Hil!

cheers

M

Nickopen · 21st August 2002, 6:18 PM

hrmm... well you lost me on most of those abreviations that time - I am only a mechanical Engineer!

As for the inputs - yeah, they're all 4-20mA ->0-5V with 12 bit DAC (standard advantech PCM3718 analogue intput card) Gotta love ultra teeny-weeny format pc-104 bus gear!

like i said though, the automation objective is a long way off... I think for now we'll just collect data and compress the data set of raw inputs to something useful (like stresses and the like).

Thanks heaps for the link - its already going to good use!

getafix123 · 21st August 2002, 10:35 PM

......ummmmm i m a chemical (read commical) engr! as regards abbreviations..sorrry, i shud have typed them full

a) DMC - dynamic matrix control
b) SISO- single input single output (typically ur PID controllers)
c) MIMO - multiple input multiple output (e.g. Nueral network based controller or DMC kinda)
d) PRBS - Psuedo Random Binary Sequence/signalling
e) FCCU - Fluidized Catalytic Converter Unit (thats where they break heavies such as naptha into lights such as lpg, gasoline, etc)

cheers m8

M

Mr. iPaq · 27th August 2002, 5:47 PM

yeah i know i'm ressurecting a dead thread but i have qnx running on an ipaq 3660....

it's a bit limited at this stage, and is only a beta, but in design and looks stakes, it whoops any PocketPC offering MS has churned out.

16th August 2002, 3:27 PM	#1
Nickopen Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 186	Any QNX users out there? Hi, I am doing work in my PhD requiring the use of QNX (a POSIX compliant RTOS) - just wondering if anyone else out there in OCAU land uses this or if I am the only one! It seems that the world wide community of QNX users is limited to a handful of military projects and some robotics enthusiasts. __________________ Yeah, I have a computer, and a car, and a bike.

16th August 2002, 4:05 PM	#2
Nickopen Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 186	Nice to see someone uses it! yeah, no apps is a bit annoying, but really, its an OS for doing REAL programming with, none of this everyday workstation stuff! Is anyone out there using it for "something"? My project is really boring... something that is a little more interesting is this... http://ece.uwaterloo.ca/~warg/ <- Waterloo Aerial Robotics Group __________________ Yeah, I have a computer, and a car, and a bike.

17th August 2002, 12:31 AM	#3
Leopard Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane CBD Posts: 1,623	I downloaded it, installed it, didn't know what to do with it, deleted it. Still got the cd though, wil have a spare computer later on this year...hmmm any good for a firewall/gateway/server? __________________ VR/VS Commodore Owners Club Member #64 VS Series II Acclaim

19th August 2002, 9:45 PM	#9
Nickopen Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 186	for some reason i didn't get notified of the replies to this thread until just then... so I just assumed that no-one cared and ignored the thread - sorry ppl! As for what I am doing, the main part of my PhD is data collection and analysis for some (very large) hydraulic excavators at a mine site, specifically looking for the practices that cause excessive duty on the machines (sounds boring, but its actually pretty interesting when you get into the nitty gritty!). Its all going onto small form PC104 3.5" SBC's (the greatest invention since the laptop in my opion - heaps smaller than micro atx and often with as good stuff!) We are using a RTOS because we want to be able to have it running 24/7 for a couple of years at least, with minimal reboots etc, mainly so that we can dial it up over a satfone and download the data and/or update the software at our will, well, that and the fact that QNX has to be the EASIEST OS in the world for writing device drivers for! As for fitting it onto little floppies and stuff, its great - it is a true micro kernel - you don't want a filesystem driver, keyboard or mouse support? then don't include them! The image can be as small as you want it to be, then again, you can include everythign under the sun and its still only ~200 Mb! __________________ Yeah, I have a computer, and a car, and a bike. Last edited by Nickopen; 19th August 2002 at 9:48 PM.

20th August 2002, 8:57 AM	#11
Nickopen Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 186	hehe, yes, isn't data acquisition fun! We have 36 analogue inputs and just one digital... we are majorly over-spec-ing the system though with the ultimate (and probably unrealistic) aim of complete system automation one day in the future. And yes, matlab is my new best freind... but I am not looking forward to the day when I have to translate all the code into C++ - do you realise how hard its going to be to invert a matrix a in C, when in matlab, all you do is inv(A)? __________________ Yeah, I have a computer, and a car, and a bike.

17th August 2002, 12:10 PM	#4
SpecGen Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 514	Just out of interest, what are the uses for a RTOS? Why is it any better than say a cut down linux distro? That was not meant to promote linux in any way, I was just using it as an example. You can fit linux onto a floppy disk, where that QNX ISO is almost 200MB, so it couldn't be space. Its microkernel based, which i'm sure would have its advantages, but I'm sure you could get the L4 microkernel running with something as well. I'm simply interested, I've heard about RTOS's for a while but never actually found out what they were used for or anything.

18th August 2002, 10:21 AM	#7
SpecGen Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 514	Thanks for the replys people. I probably should have researched a bit more before I said anything, I had no idea you could fit it on a floppy. Thanks Epoch/Unregisturd. I guess there would really be no practical advantage over a non-RTOS using it on the desktop after what you've said, still looks interesting though.

19th August 2002, 9:18 PM	#8
getafix123 Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: 2097 Posts: 71	hey nickopen, wow glad to see QNX users here. i used QNX about 9 yrs ago for process control apps. love it and prefered it over other RTOS like IRMX etc. hey, whats ur PhD about? what u using QNX for, medical, nuklear, process control/scada? I used QNX to interface with Allen-Bradley, Honeywell and ABB PLC and DCCS systems for research in advance process control. (MIMO type) cheers MM

19th August 2002, 9:57 PM	#10
getafix123 Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: 2097 Posts: 71	aha good ole data collection? are these analog inputs or digital inputs or mix? my projects were process industry related but similar in data aquisition concepts, and we used QNX for collection from PLC and Intelluitions' FIX-DMACS for UI. was pretty kick ass( about 9 yrs ago)! and MatLab for hard core analysis part! typical system wud measure / monitor about 36 AI, 192 DI, and 60 odd RTDs. good ole engg days ... god damn nostalgia

20th August 2002, 11:07 AM	#12
getafix123 Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: 2097 Posts: 71	this may help ya with QnX from my old bookmarks http://www.nyx.net/~smanley/realtime/realtime.html so . what kinda AI conversions are those good ole 4-20 ma inputs 10 bit resolution? 0-4093 on 0-100% scale? or different kinda! converting from matlab to c . ouch thats like ferrari to BMW316i complete automation? given the numbe of AI us got, i guess Sinlge Loop Controllers wont cut in alone, u would need DMC or Equiv MIMO system. Betch ya, u will love all those PRBS step testing and modelling to get ur system matirx for target set points on SISOs. Not many aussie teams researching in that field (infact only one i am aware of is/was Uni Melb Chem Engg for FCCU modelling). and yeah the bible ... Luyben' "Process MOdelling Simulation & Control for Chemical Engineers" Mc-Graw Hil! cheers M

21st August 2002, 6:18 PM	#13
Nickopen Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Brisbane Posts: 186	hrmm... well you lost me on most of those abreviations that time - I am only a mechanical Engineer! As for the inputs - yeah, they're all 4-20mA ->0-5V with 12 bit DAC (standard advantech PCM3718 analogue intput card) Gotta love ultra teeny-weeny format pc-104 bus gear! like i said though, the automation objective is a long way off... I think for now we'll just collect data and compress the data set of raw inputs to something useful (like stresses and the like). Thanks heaps for the link - its already going to good use! __________________ Yeah, I have a computer, and a car, and a bike.

21st August 2002, 10:35 PM	#14
getafix123 Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: 2097 Posts: 71	......ummmmm i m a chemical (read commical) engr! as regards abbreviations..sorrry, i shud have typed them full a) DMC - dynamic matrix control b) SISO- single input single output (typically ur PID controllers) c) MIMO - multiple input multiple output (e.g. Nueral network based controller or DMC kinda) d) PRBS - Psuedo Random Binary Sequence/signalling e) FCCU - Fluidized Catalytic Converter Unit (thats where they break heavies such as naptha into lights such as lpg, gasoline, etc) cheers m8 M

27th August 2002, 5:47 PM	#15
Mr. iPaq Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 194	yeah i know i'm ressurecting a dead thread but i have qnx running on an ipaq 3660.... it's a bit limited at this stage, and is only a beta, but in design and looks stakes, it whoops any PocketPC offering MS has churned out.