OCAU Guitar Players Club 3 - Page 20

DJ Fusion · 15th July 2010, 2:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spootmonkey

Remember those TVs you could buy back in the day with built-in VCRs? That's my point.

Yeah, coz VCR's are worth a lot second-hand now that we've realised modern technology isn't offering a decent replacement.

Oh wait, that's tubescreamer pedals. Sorry, I was mixing your retarded metaphor with my incredibly accurate metaphor.

Edstructicon · 15th July 2010, 2:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Fusion

Try to get all the tubes cooking on your mates Engl, in your living room, at 10pm at night and you'll get an idea of where this Ibanez amp fits into the scheme of things.

Yeah I know what you're saying, and i do the same thing. It's all down to trade-off's - you can either have quiet and kinda tube sound or loud and real tube sound.

spootmonkey · 15th July 2010, 2:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ Fusion

Oh wait, that's tubescreamer pedals. Sorry, I was mixing your retarded metaphor with my incredibly accurate metaphor.

You can buy a swirly-painted vintage-spec corksniffer TS for $1000 if you like, or you could just take your pick of the myriad perfectly capable overdrive pedals on the market. If there were any special mojo in the old ones that wasn't in the new ones, you certainly wouldn't be finding it in this amp. The metaphor is fine, and applies equally to Rolands, Voxes and Line 6s, except in that case you get more options for significantly less money.

Set aside $150 for your preferred overdrive, then see if you can find a better bedroom amp for the remaining $930. I can get an OD1 and a HT5 for $700 you say? Fascinating.

DJ Fusion · 15th July 2010, 3:04 PM

C'mon old man spoot, NOBODY uses VCRs anymore, your analogy sucks arse.

Also, it's isn't like this amp is priced like a TT + a vintage TS9, it's good value.

Not idea how you got onto Microcubes though... you know they've got an SS power amp with digital effects right?

Also HT-5 mini-stack is RRP$999, same as the Ibanez so I'm not quite sure where you got $700 from.

spootmonkey · 15th July 2010, 3:11 PM

The TV/VCR analogy is fine, because that particular idea was a failure, and hasn't been repeated on anywhere near that scale with newer media formats. I could even stretch it a little and argue that the obsoleteness of VCR adds to the argument in that it further demonstrates the benefits of modularity.

Every example I've given is of one product with another built-in, at the cost of versatility, with the only benefit being cost. If the Ibanez isn't significantly cheaper than a comparable small amp (does head/cab matter over combo in a bedroom context?), be it an all-valve high-gainable job or a mid-gain model coupled with a cheap new overdrive (this circuit ain't a vintage Tubescreamer, or vintage Tubescreamers wouldn't cost what they do), then what's the point?

On Tubescreamers, the difference between the TS7 and the current TS9 is $170, a metal case, a troublesome switch design, handwiring (as opposed to, I suspect, no wires), and less modes.

I believe that $1000 mini-stack option nets you a second speaker too.

DJ Fusion · 15th July 2010, 3:17 PM

How is it not versatile? You know there's an on/off switch on the Tubescreamer stage right? It's one solitary overdrive stage in front of the pre but you're going on like it's a Fender G-DEC system.

Also I never play guitar in my bedroom, but in a living room I far prefer head/cab vs combo meals, they look way better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spootmonkey

I believe that $1000 mini-stack option nets you a second speaker too.

Head + cab, $693 delivered.

http://www.musoscorner.com.au/site/i...EF1715AF3F191B

spootmonkey · 15th July 2010, 3:28 PM

Much better price - like I said, it has to be cheap. Bigger cut off RRP than anything else on there, which is interesting. If we're getting on to how things look though, the Ibanez is ugly.

On versatility, a) you can't sell the overdrive if you find something better, and b) you can't run anything else between the overdrive and the amp.

DJ Fusion · 15th July 2010, 3:30 PM

It's beautiful!

Vintage cream and British green. It'll look brilliant next to my Orange and tan TT rig.

Maybe if I covered it in holoflash stickers?

spootmonkey · 15th July 2010, 3:32 PM

There's no accounting for taste.

Willybomb · 15th July 2010, 3:41 PM

Quote:

Maybe if I covered it in holoflash stickers?

You know you want to.

Quote:

I thought the whole point of an overdrive circuit was to make up for an amp that wouldn't overdrive.

On first impressions I thought it was a tube amp emulating a SS pedal. That would have been a bit backwards.

BigandY, where do you work?

spootmonkey · 15th July 2010, 4:08 PM

I don't know. I'm surprised no one brought it up amidst my troublemaking, but there's a particular sound you get from slamming an already hot amp with an overdrive that is quite desireable, above and beyond any attempts at emulating the sound of that hot amp alone. No reason you couldn't sort out some kind of valve-powered front-end boost to pummel the pre-amp. Laney did it in the 70s, but went a bit over the top.

DJ Fusion · 15th July 2010, 4:21 PM

Like a HT-Dual into a valve amp? Not exactly that exotic a setup is it?

And I don't see any reason why this Ibanez cranked up wouldn't sound like a hot amp with a desirable overdrive in front.

BigandY · 15th July 2010, 4:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spootmonkey

The TV/VCR analogy is fine, because that particular idea was a failure, and hasn't been repeated on anywhere near that scale with newer media formats. I could even stretch it a little and argue that the obsoleteness of VCR adds to the argument in that it further demonstrates the benefits of modularity.

Every example I've given is of one product with another built-in, at the cost of versatility, with the only benefit being cost. If the Ibanez isn't significantly cheaper than a comparable small amp (does head/cab matter over combo in a bedroom context?), be it an all-valve high-gainable job or a mid-gain model coupled with a cheap new overdrive (this circuit ain't a vintage Tubescreamer, or vintage Tubescreamers wouldn't cost what they do), then what's the point?

On Tubescreamers, the difference between the TS7 and the current TS9 is $170, a metal case, a troublesome switch design, handwiring (as opposed to, I suspect, no wires), and less modes.

I believe that $1000 mini-stack option nets you a second speaker too.

firstly ts9 is not handwired, the ts808hw is the only handwired tubescreamer and that's $650.

secondly, you can run and OD the TS amp preamp valves without touching the TS circuitry. there is a 6db boost switch on the amp which is seperate from the TS circuit. the FSW has two buttons, one for the TS and one for the boost. so you can get nice true tube OD, or you can have the TS sound that many many many many guitarists love

Quote:

BigandY, where do you work?

ibaneth

Quote:

Originally Posted by spootmonkey

Much On versatility, a) you can't sell the overdrive if you find something better, and b) you can't run anything else between the overdrive and the amp.

there's an fx loop, pretty sure it would be after the preamp/TS and before the power amp

Xplora · 15th July 2010, 6:09 PM

Anyone used an Invader, detuned guitars????? It works for Nile, but I'm not Nile

spootmonkey · 15th July 2010, 8:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigandY

firstly ts9 is not handwired, the ts808hw is the only handwired tubescreamer and that's $650.

Even better value!

Any idea what the 9-series look like on the inside then? I had an FL9 (maybe an original?) and that was definitely a manual job, like this:

I'm not sure those enclosure would lend themselves to board-mounted jacks or pots.

Edit: seems 'handwiring' on the 808HW means a full turret board job.

Quote:

there's an fx loop, pretty sure it would be after the preamp/TS and before the power amp

I guess it's just not aimed at my boost→fuzz→amp-ing self.

15th July 2010, 3:11 PM	#290
spootmonkey Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: DPR Brunswick Posts: 7,727	The TV/VCR analogy is fine, because that particular idea was a failure, and hasn't been repeated on anywhere near that scale with newer media formats. I could even stretch it a little and argue that the obsoleteness of VCR adds to the argument in that it further demonstrates the benefits of modularity. Every example I've given is of one product with another built-in, at the cost of versatility, with the only benefit being cost. If the Ibanez isn't significantly cheaper than a comparable small amp (does head/cab matter over combo in a bedroom context?), be it an all-valve high-gainable job or a mid-gain model coupled with a cheap new overdrive (this circuit ain't a vintage Tubescreamer, or vintage Tubescreamers wouldn't cost what they do), then what's the point? On Tubescreamers, the difference between the TS7 and the current TS9 is $170, a metal case, a troublesome switch design, handwiring (as opposed to, I suspect, no wires), and less modes. I believe that $1000 mini-stack option nets you a second speaker too. __________________ "[T]here’s a way things are, it coincides with what I was brought up to believe, and the extraordinary coincidence of such is never reflected upon[.]" Last edited by spootmonkey; 15th July 2010 at 3:22 PM.

15th July 2010, 3:28 PM	#292
spootmonkey Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: DPR Brunswick Posts: 7,727	Much better price - like I said, it has to be cheap. Bigger cut off RRP than anything else on there, which is interesting. If we're getting on to how things look though, the Ibanez is ugly. On versatility, a) you can't sell the overdrive if you find something better, and b) you can't run anything else between the overdrive and the amp. __________________ "[T]here’s a way things are, it coincides with what I was brought up to believe, and the extraordinary coincidence of such is never reflected upon[.]" Last edited by spootmonkey; 15th July 2010 at 3:31 PM.

15th July 2010, 3:32 PM	#294
spootmonkey Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: DPR Brunswick Posts: 7,727	There's no accounting for taste. __________________ "[T]here’s a way things are, it coincides with what I was brought up to believe, and the extraordinary coincidence of such is never reflected upon[.]"

15th July 2010, 4:08 PM	#296
spootmonkey Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: DPR Brunswick Posts: 7,727	I don't know. I'm surprised no one brought it up amidst my troublemaking, but there's a particular sound you get from slamming an already hot amp with an overdrive that is quite desireable, above and beyond any attempts at emulating the sound of that hot amp alone. No reason you couldn't sort out some kind of valve-powered front-end boost to pummel the pre-amp. Laney did it in the 70s, but went a bit over the top. __________________ "[T]here’s a way things are, it coincides with what I was brought up to believe, and the extraordinary coincidence of such is never reflected upon[.]"

15th July 2010, 6:09 PM	#299
Xplora Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 7,015	Anyone used an Invader, detuned guitars????? It works for Nile, but I'm not Nile __________________ Copyright Xplora, 2010. Every. Single. Government. Intervention. Has. Negatives.

15th July 2010, 3:04 PM	#289
DJ Fusion Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sydney Posts: 4,868	C'mon old man spoot, NOBODY uses VCRs anymore, your analogy sucks arse. Also, it's isn't like this amp is priced like a TT + a vintage TS9, it's good value. Not idea how you got onto Microcubes though... you know they've got an SS power amp with digital effects right? Also HT-5 mini-stack is RRP$999, same as the Ibanez so I'm not quite sure where you got $700 from.

15th July 2010, 3:30 PM	#293
DJ Fusion Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sydney Posts: 4,868	It's beautiful! Vintage cream and British green. It'll look brilliant next to my Orange and tan TT rig. Maybe if I covered it in holoflash stickers?

15th July 2010, 4:21 PM	#297
DJ Fusion Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Sydney Posts: 4,868	Like a HT-Dual into a valve amp? Not exactly that exotic a setup is it? And I don't see any reason why this Ibanez cranked up wouldn't sound like a hot amp with a desirable overdrive in front.