Time to upgrade my GTX 295?

[Soul-Reaver]

Here are my computer specs

I7 920 @ 2.66ghz
Gigabyte GA-EX58 UD4P Motherboard
6gb Corsair 1600mhz DDR3 ram
MSI N295GTX 1792MB Video Card
GSkill FM-25S2I-128GBFII SSD Hard Drive
WD Caviar Black WD2001FASS 2TB HDD
Antec 1000w TruePower ATX Power supply
Benq E2400HD 24inch HDMI monitor

I have had this system for close to two years now and while it runs most games fine at the maximum resolution(1920x1080) its starting to show its limits in more demanding games. Having not really followed the progress of current video cards I'm wondering will a single GTX580 or 6970 be a worthwhile upgrade or should I go SLI or should I hold out altogether?

[karsa]

a gtx 580 would be a nice upgrade i think i dont believe sli is terribly good value for money unless your benching or runnng real high resolutions either, the 295 is definitely getting long in the tooth might as well sell it while its still worth something

[issa2006]

You don't need a video card upgrade you need a cpu running at 3-3.6ghz

You bought a fast video card + a very slow cpu.. you cards is running slower than a 250gt card

If a cpu is to slow it hold back the graphics speed running it slower, also the opposite is true, is

(as you know intel cpu dont run at 4ghz (they keep changing sockets sin 2007) but they have not got faster..they have not kep up with the video cards..

which is why people speed up their cpu to keep up with their high end cpu.

you current setup (cpu speed) only uses 40% of you graphics power, thats right you cards only running at 40%(feels slow)



If I plug in a 250gt video card it would get the same speed as you 295 (3dmark 06)
tested


dx9 xppro 3dmark06 sm3.0 test 1 loop

a) 1920x1200 250 nvidia video card, 3g cpu (same speed as b+c)
b) 1920x1200 295v2 nvidia video card, 3g cpu
c) 1920x1200 560ti nvidia video card, 3g cpu

e) 1920x1200 250 nvidia video card, 3.6g cpu (over clocked cpu)
f) 1920x1200 295v2 nvidia video card, 3.6g cpu 1000 point in sm3 faster e)
g) 1920x1200 560ti nvidia video card, 3.6g cpu same speed as f)


at 3ghz a 295 video cards run like a nvidia 250... at you cpu speed of 2.66 you 295 runs like a 8800 gt 512mb.. slow


295=480 in speed (dx9) with a fast cpu(3.6ghz is the sweet spot)
480=560 in speed (dx9) (as above)

i have tried a 250+460+260+450+560+480+295.. in my system

at 3ghz + 3.6ghz

run you chip at 3.6 and see big improvement..

580 needs about a 3.8ghz cpu to get the best out of it + 580x3 needs about a 4.4 ghz cpu..


or the cpu will limited the cards speed(wont be fully used)

you current cpu cant handle a 250 nvidia card ... which is much slower than a 295.


p.s 560 vs 295 (295 better physic power), same sm3.0 /sm4.0(dx10)speed.. 560 sm5.0 faster(dx11)(295 has no sm5.0)


6600gt/9800gt = 2.66 cpu (dual or quad) to max out the video card speed
250gt you need a 3ghz cpu
260/450 3.2ghz cpu
460 3.4ghz cpu
275/285/295/560 3.6ghz cpu

580/ 3.8ghz(or 4)

[Reaper_1994]

just curious. What about my specs?? Is my graphics card being limited by what i have??

[issa2006]

Originally Posted by Reaper_1994

just curious. What about my specs?? Is my graphics card being limited by what i have??

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 @ 3.09Ghz / HIS HD6970 / Corsair H50 with 2xCM SickleFlow Fans 2000rpm / Intel DX38BT / 2xCorsair Vengeance 4GB (1x4GB) DDR3 / Thermaltake Element G / Thermaltake 700W / 1x250GB, 1x1TB and 1x2TB

yes.

1) the cpu has 1/2 the cache as the older 9450+ 9550 etc..

the 8200/8400/9200/9400 wher cheaper cpu with half the cache.
this affects overclock + game+ have programs that use the cache more


2) you want to run a cpu (dual or greater) at 3.6ghz minim for you card
(what resolution (screen are you playing)




1 bad quad core (9400) for gaming
Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor Q9400 (6M Cache, 2.66 GHz, 1333 MHz ...

Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor Q9650 (12M Cache, 3.00 GHz, 1333 MHz ...

you have overclock thats good but due to the cache size being smaller, the oc will feel slower

ie

a) 9650 at 3.6ghz (12m cache)
b) 9400 at 4ghz (6m cavvhe) will be the same as a)

9400 at 3ghz run like a quad at 2.66(with 12m cache)


thats why some chips (with less cache) overclock up the same as other high end chips, but when you test them the games etc run faster on the chip with the bigger cache


i remember with the 478 intel sockets

pentium 4 3ghz 1m cache

and a celeron (512k cache) 2.66 ghz chip run at 3.4ghz was the same speed playing games as the default p4 3h cpu.

bigger cache helps with programs+ games that you it more (prevents it from going back to slower main memory(ram)...boosts speed of chip(bottleneck is main ram speed)(hdd etc)

get a 9550/9450/9650+ oc to 3.6 or new board 1155/1156/1333 oc chip to 3.6ghz

[mevereyn]

Eh. Good luck picking up a q9650 (for a good price) these days, as far as I've seen for a while now... Might be wrong, but if I'm anything to go by as well - people just don't want to let them go!

If you're looking toward a CPU upgrade, I wouldn't bother with any chip of that era. Says me using one (an OCd q9650, funnily enough ), but still. If I wanted to upgrade a q9400, theoretically, I'd look to something like S1155, or maybe even an AMD alternative, depending. Gaming though, Intel probably wins out again.

The HD6970 is a great card. I agree that your CPU would be letting the team down.

edit: @ Reaper, I mean, of course.

[ChaosMaster]

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/168?vs=158

Should give you a good idea, just add 10% on top of GTX480.

Consider grabbing a GTX570 instead, much better value. Much better value for money. $350 for a GTX570 or pay $550 for a GTX580, or 55% extra for 15% extra performance. Heck, you can nearly afford 2 GTX570 for GTX580 money. Either way, you should OC your CPU for better performance.

[snappy1]

I agree, overclock your 920 to 4 Ghz and you won't need an upgrade..

Is it a CO or DO step cpu?

[Reaper_1994]

Originally Posted by issa2006

Intel Core 2 Quad Q9400 @ 3.09Ghz / HIS HD6970 / Corsair H50 with 2xCM SickleFlow Fans 2000rpm / Intel DX38BT / 2xCorsair Vengeance 4GB (1x4GB) DDR3 / Thermaltake Element G / Thermaltake 700W / 1x250GB, 1x1TB and 1x2TB

yes.

1) the cpu has 1/2 the cache as the older 9450+ 9550 etc..

the 8200/8400/9200/9400 wher cheaper cpu with half the cache.
this affects overclock + game+ have programs that use the cache more


2) you want to run a cpu (dual or greater) at 3.6ghz minim for you card
(what resolution (screen are you playing)




1 bad quad core (9400) for gaming
Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor Q9400 (6M Cache, 2.66 GHz, 1333 MHz ...

Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor Q9650 (12M Cache, 3.00 GHz, 1333 MHz ...

you have overclock thats good but due to the cache size being smaller, the oc will feel slower

ie

a) 9650 at 3.6ghz (12m cache)
b) 9400 at 4ghz (6m cavvhe) will be the same as b)

9400 at 3ghz run like a quad at 2.66(with 12m cache)


thats why some chips (with less cache) overclock up the same as other high end chips, but when you test them the games etc run faster on the chip with the bigger cache


i remember with the 478 intel cockets

pentium 4 3ghz 1m cache

and a celeron (512k cache) 2.66 ghz chip run at 3.4ghz was the same speed playing games as the default p4 3h cpu.

bigger cache helps with programs+ games that you it more (prevents it from going back to slower main memory(ram)...boosts speed of ship(bottleneck is main ram speed)(hdd etc)

get a 9550/9450/9650+ oc to 3.6 or new board 1155/1156/1333 oc chip to 3.6ghz

Well... it's a bit hard for me to buy a new board (or CPU for that matter) atm because i'm earning $180 a fortnight and i only just turned 17 last month so yer. I guess that says it all??

Originally Posted by mevereyn

Eh. Good luck picking up a q9650 (for a good price) these days, as far as I've seen for a while now... Might be wrong, but if I'm anything to go by as well - people just don't want to let them go!

If you're looking toward a CPU upgrade, I wouldn't bother with any chip of that era. Says me using one (an OCd q9650, funnily enough ), but still. If I wanted to upgrade a q9400, theoretically, I'd look to something like S1155, or maybe even an AMD alternative, depending. Gaming though, Intel probably wins out again.

The HD6970 is a great card. I agree that your CPU would be letting the team down.

edit: @ Reaper, I mean, of course.

Being that I have a H50 and max load temp is 55c I think I could get about 3.6Ghz out of it. I don't really want to go that high tho as it is my main rig for web browsing, gaming, and VM's etc. To me it would be pushing it...

Though now that i think of it, i have a mate that is currently running a Q9650. We were talking the other day and he said that he MIGHT upgrade his system soon so i'll grab his CPU then

[issa2006]

don't forget right chip + correct socket

775
1333
1156
1155

q9650 or 9550 is 775

i have no real reason to upgrade from my quad 9650 (3.6ghz oc) to a new 1333 or 1155 socket cpu= motherboard

i would only upgrade if i wanted 2x sli 580 in system.. then my oc is not fast enough.. i would need new ram(1200) fxb ddr2 to oclock my cpu higher...it woyuld be easy o get a 1333 + oc a new 3.2g cpu to 4+ add ddr 3 ram (2000fsb) +(the 2x new 580)


tests have shown that 480/560 nvidia is about the same as the 295v2 in speed.. except in phyx speed 295 faster(due to face sli leave 25% card free)
currently i got my cpu at 3.6(easy oc) ghz quad 9650 4/8 g ram at ddr2 800 (1:1 ratio 4 4 4 12) 3x ssd in raid 0(740mb/sec) 28"screen viewsonic (1920x1200) 295v2 oc card,sb titaium fatiliy,g19/ g9x mouse etc(+22tb+rcards)

[Southead]

Originally Posted by issa2006

You don't need a video card upgrade you need a cpu running at 3-3.6ghz

You bought a fast video card + a very slow cpu.. you cards is running slower than a 250gt card

If a cpu is to slow it hold back the graphics speed running it slower, also the opposite is true, is

(as you know intel cpu dont run at 4ghz (they keep changing sockets sin 2007) but they have not got faster..they have not kep up with the video cards..

which is why people speed up their cpu to keep up with their high end cpu.

you current setup (cpu speed) only uses 40% of you graphics power, thats right you cards only running at 40%(feels slow)



If I plug in a 250gt video card it would get the same speed as you 295 (3dmark 06)
tested


dx9 xppro 3dmark06 sm3.0 test 1 loop

a) 1920x1200 250 nvidia video card, 3g cpu (same speed as b+c)
b) 1920x1200 295v2 nvidia video card, 3g cpu
c) 1920x1200 560ti nvidia video card, 3g cpu

e) 1920x1200 250 nvidia video card, 3.6g cpu (over clocked cpu)
f) 1920x1200 295v2 nvidia video card, 3.6g cpu 1000 point in sm3 faster e)
g) 1920x1200 560ti nvidia video card, 3.6g cpu same speed as f)


at 3ghz a 295 video cards run like a nvidia 250... at you cpu speed of 2.66 you 295 runs like a 8800 gt 512mb.. slow


295=480 in speed (dx9) with a fast cpu(3.6ghz is the sweet spot)
480=560 in speed (dx9) (as above)

i have tried a 250+460+260+450+560+480+295.. in my system

at 3ghz + 3.6ghz

run you chip at 3.6 and see big improvement..

580 needs about a 3.8ghz cpu to get the best out of it + 580x3 needs about a 4.4 ghz cpu..


or the cpu will limited the cards speed(wont be fully used)

you current cpu cant handle a 250 nvidia card ... which is much slower than a 295.


p.s 560 vs 295 (295 better physic power), same sm3.0 /sm4.0(dx10)speed.. 560 sm5.0 faster(dx11)(295 has no sm5.0)


6600gt/9800gt = 2.66 cpu (dual or quad) to max out the video card speed
250gt you need a 3ghz cpu
260/450 3.2ghz cpu
460 3.4ghz cpu
275/285/295/560 3.6ghz cpu

580/ 3.8ghz(or 4)

This is absolute Bullshit!

If this is all true, then why are TechPowerUp doing a review of a MSI GTX 580 Lightning with a i7 920 @ 3.8Ghz and also a PowerColor Radeon HD 6990 CrossFire with the EXACT same test system.

I emplore you to go and tell one of the most respected and read review sites on the net that their review process is wrong...

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest a Xfire or SLI system needs a CPU runing in excess of 4ghz to have no bottleneck. The bottneck comes from the bandwidth between the processor, memory and the PCIE bridge.

So Yes he would be limiting the system if he was running 775 or maybe even 1156, but X58 is DESIGNED to run SLI - up to 3 way (NF200 is required to give enough PCIE bandwidth to run more).

Dont go telling people to upgrade their shit when you obviously have nfi what your on about.

He may overclock his CPU but in all fairness probablydoesnt really need to and at most wont really see any gains to graphical performance unles gaming over 1920x1080...

[ViperAMD]

I've got a fairly similar setup on my main machine mate - i7 920, 6gb ram, 27inch (1920x1200 res) etc. and a fortnight ago I moved from a GTX295 to a 580. Simply put I'm blown away by the difference. It's one thing to read about 10% here and 15% there but for me it was another to now be able to load up any game I can think of and play it at whatever specs I can dream of.
The even bigger difference for me, however, was in noise and heat. Compared to the 295, the 580 is just so much quieter and cooler. Loading it up in a game or on a benchmark and I could barely here it spinning up.

Do yourself a favour; overclock your CPU (even to a moderate 3.8Ghz would make a huge difference) and keep an eye on the for sale forums for a reasonably priced 580 (or even 570 I think would do a solid job and you can add a second later). I don't think you'll regret it.

[Bertross]

3.6Ghz on the i7920 is all you need for games 4Ghz is a bit much and unnecessary for heat. The X58 chipset is hot imo hence why i went to SB.

[CordlezToaster]

Guys im looking at doing the same and i have the same system as the op.

Is it worth updating from the i7-920 to a i7-960?
I really dont know much about overclocking, nor could i be half arsed unless i can pay someone to do it for me.

[C-BuZz]

Originally Posted by Southead

This is absolute Bullshit!

If this is all true, then why are TechPowerUp doing a review of a MSI GTX 580 Lightning with a i7 920 @ 3.8Ghz and also a PowerColor Radeon HD 6990 CrossFire with the EXACT same test system.

I emplore you to go and tell one of the most respected and read review sites on the net that their review process is wrong...

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest a Xfire or SLI system needs a CPU runing in excess of 4ghz to have no bottleneck. The bottneck comes from the bandwidth between the processor, memory and the PCIE bridge.

So Yes he would be limiting the system if he was running 775 or maybe even 1156, but X58 is DESIGNED to run SLI - up to 3 way (NF200 is required to give enough PCIE bandwidth to run more).

Dont go telling people to upgrade their shit when you obviously have nfi what your on about.

He may overclock his CPU but in all fairness probablydoesnt really need to and at most wont really see any gains to graphical performance unles gaming over 1920x1080...

Although issa2006's post is very long winded, overall in a very roundabout what he is saying is correct. I've also got GTX295 & I've done a fair amount of testing/gaming/benching on it with both a 1090T@4.4Ghz and a 2600K that hits 5.4Ghz. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the OP's 920@stock will be bottlenecking it quite heavily.

The bottleneck actually comes from the processor not being able to feed the GPU fast enough @ whatever speed it's running or vice versa. I saw very large FPS gains increases in 3D06 going from 2600k@4.5Ghz to 5Ghz.