[WIN8] Windows 8 Thread

[PabloEscobar]

Originally Posted by OpenSystem

Has it crossed your mind that some people generally dislike the design focus of the Metro UI, that is, a predominant touch mobile focus?

It has.

But so far, apart fro 10 pages about why shutdown is in the wrong spot, nobody has really come up with anthing particular that they dislike about this design focus, Apart from "its different" or "it looks like fisher price".

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and in My opinion, those who have spent very little time using Win8, are those most loudly voicing theirs.

Maybe AndyRoo can put his L33t programming skills to work, and come up with Timer that measures how Long users spend in the Metro interface, vs How long they spend within an application.

My first impression of Metro was WTF, but after actually using it for a while, It's no problem at all.

[power]

charms and multi-monitor plus the focus on full screen apps are my biggest annoyance, oh and how to shut the fucking thing down.

But hey, I'm just plain wrong.

Many commentators agree, but at OCAU if you disagree with a design philosophy you are wrong.

[OpenSystem]

Originally Posted by PabloEscobar

It has.

But so far, apart fro 10 pages about why shutdown is in the wrong spot, nobody has really come up with anthing particular that they dislike about this design focus, Apart from "its different" or "it looks like fisher price".

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and in My opinion, those who have spent very little time using Win8, are those most loudly voicing theirs.

Maybe AndyRoo can put his L33t programming skills to work, and come up with Timer that measures how Long users spend in the Metro interface, vs How long they spend within an application.

My first impression of Metro was WTF, but after actually using it for a while, It's no problem at all.

I'm sure you are good at adapting to your environment, I'd prefer M$ adapt to mine.

Unfortunately I'm not their latest market endeavor, touch mobile is.

I would love to have seen what would have been produced with a primarily desktop focus.

[G-PhresH]

Originally Posted by power

charms and multi-monitor plus the focus on full screen apps are my biggest annoyance, oh and how to shut the fucking thing down.

But hey, I'm just plain wrong.

Many commentators agree, but at OCAU if you disagree with a design philosophy you are wrong.

I dont think i said anyone was wrong.
My biggest issue with people saying its crap is that they used it for a day or two then gave up.

You said it took you 1 week to become familiar with and certified (i assume you did a course or something) with OSX, yet you have given Win8 a "quick go".
Ive tried to use OSX for days and become incredibly frustrated because of things i dont know. Im sure if i kept using it all that would go away and my work style would adapt.

Also what apps do you have that you DONT use fullscreen.

Im not trying to troll you or anything, im just trying to understand your argument.


Personally i think it will be great for me. I hardly look at the start menu anymore (on win7 all my apps are pinned) and to shut it down i just press the power button.

Every version of an OS (or UI) is going to have people change their usage habits, its not going to make everyone happy. Unifying the UI for desktop OS and tablet/mobile ui is an exceptional idea because people only need to learn 1 UI, not 2-3.
Sure some people will be frustrated for maybe a week but after that it wont matter, if UI's changed every week then it would be an issue but you will keep win8 for atleast 3-4 years.

[power]

If unifying the desktop and mobile was a great idea, Apple would have done it already but OSX and iOS are still seperate.

OSX is actually pretty easy to use for anyone who's used a desktop OS.

Windows 8 hides too many things from view, making you hunt for the g-spot.

[OpenSystem]

Originally Posted by G-PhresH

Every version of an OS (or UI) is going to have people change their usage habits, its not going to make everyone happy. Unifying the UI for desktop OS and tablet/mobile ui is an exceptional idea because people only need to learn 1 UI, not 2-3.
Sure some people will be frustrated for maybe a week but after that it wont matter, if UI's changed every week then it would be an issue but you will keep win8 for atleast 3-4 years.

And that's what every major company would love: One person, multiple devices from one company.

What if I own a Windows desktop PC a iPhone and an iPad?
OR a Macbook and a Windows phone,
OR a iMac a MS Surface and a Android Phone,
OR a Linux desktop PC and a iPhone etc etc.

[G-PhresH]

Originally Posted by power

If unifying the desktop and mobile was a great idea, Apple would have done it already but OSX and iOS are still seperate.

OSX is actually pretty easy to use for anyone who's used a desktop OS.

Windows 8 hides too many things from view, making you hunt for the g-spot.

Apple has already started to do it. OSX has started looking like iOS for a long time. For me OSX was a royal pain in the ass. Like i mentioned before, the learning curve is different for everyone based upon how resistant to change you are.

Originally Posted by OpenSystem

And that's what every major company would love: One person, multiple devices from one company.

What if I own a Windows gaming desktop PC a iPhone and an iPad?
OR a Macbook and a Windows phone,
OR a iMac a MS Surface and a Android Phone,
OR a Linux desktop PC and a iPhone etc etc.

Thats your choice to have a single ecosystem or not.
Im not sure what you are getting at. You CAN use do all of those combinations under Metro based UI devices, you just have different UI's to learn.

For the non-pro user, having a single UI across mutliple platforms is a good idea and helps people adapt to new technology easier.

[PabloEscobar]

Originally Posted by power

If unifying the desktop and mobile was a great idea, Apple would have done it already but OSX and iOS are still seperate.

OSX is actually pretty easy to use for anyone who's used a desktop OS.

Windows 8 hides too many things from view, making you hunt for the g-spot.

So because its not been done yet, its not a good idea? with that mindset, nothing would ever change...

Can you please be more specific about whats been 'Hidden' from you? (apart from the shutdown button).

If you really wanted to, you can have every single exe on your computer appear in the Metro Start Screen.... Nothing would be hidden from you, But then people would complain that it is to cluttered.

For me, now If I'm not going into one of the 5 programs I normally use on my computer, I just type it, and it finds it for me. Windows search has come A VERY long way. There is no lag as it narrows the searches down, and it is fairly good at finding what I want, even if I don't know exactly what it is called.

Originally Posted by OpenSystem

And that's what every major company would love: One person, multiple devices from one company.

What if I own a Windows desktop PC a iPhone and an iPad?
OR a Macbook and a Windows phone,
OR a iMac a MS Surface and a Android Phone,
OR a Linux desktop PC and a iPhone etc etc.

Vendor lock-in is not a new thing, Neither is using dominance in one market as leverage in another.

Convergence of devices is the way of the future, and instead of have Mac and PC people, you will have Windows, Android, or Apple people. And to enable compatibilty between them, will require third party addons and kludges (just like itunes on windows ).

[OpenSystem]

Originally Posted by G-PhresH

Thats your choice to have a single ecosystem or not.
Im not sure what you are getting at. You CAN use do all of those combinations under Metro based UI devices, you just have different UI's to learn.

For the non-pro user, having a single UI across mutliple platforms is a good idea and helps people adapt to new technology easier.

I'm getting at the possibility that not everyone would be on board with an all M$ ecosystem.

M$ have a very small share within the mobile market as it is, how many iOS or Android users does M$ expect to convert?

Is it a gamble to enforce a unified UI change, via Metro, unto the already established desktop market?

Would enterprise be on-board, simply for the ability to provide a unifying solution for an increasing mobile computing demand?

Would enterprise force the classic UI, via group policy, for it's desktop fleet if they did?

IS metro a seamless, easy to use UI for this desktop enterprise environment?

M$ have missed the boat concerning my preference.

I'm a dedicated M$ Windows Desktop consumer due to my love of PC gaming and and PC hardware, also my profession is supporting their products.

[power]

Originally Posted by G-PhresH

Apple has already started to do it. OSX has started looking like iOS for a long time. For me OSX was a royal pain in the ass. Like i mentioned before, the learning curve is different for everyone based upon how resistant to change you are.

See I find OSX quite easy to use yet you find it a "royal pain the the ass". I don't like it but it's not a royal pita by any stretch of the imagination.

iOS and OSX are in no way similar btw so you may want to rethink that statement.

I'm not resistant to change and that's something you have to storp saying as well, I have adopted and used EVERY version of Windows since Win 95 including the much maligned ME and Vista - and I actually loved them both.

I loved the new things in ME, XP, 2K, Vista, 7 you name it - 8 just doesn't do it for me yet.

[OpenSystem]

Originally Posted by PabloEscobar

Vendor lock-in is not a new thing, Neither is using dominance in one market as leverage in another.

Convergence of devices is the way of the future, and instead of have Mac and PC people, you will have Windows, Android, or Apple people. And to enable compatibilty between them, will require third party addons and kludges (just like itunes on windows ).

Which sucks If you want the best of all worlds! As you can see by Win 8, the best Gaming environment, the Windows Desktop PC, has become a secondary focus.

[G-PhresH]

Originally Posted by power

See I find OSX quite easy to use yet you find it a "royal pain the the ass". I don't like it but it's not a royal pita by any stretch of the imagination.

iOS and OSX are in no way similar btw so you may want to rethink that statement.

I'm not resistant to change and that's something you have to storp saying as well, I have adopted and used EVERY version of Windows since Win 95 including the much maligned ME and Vista - and I actually loved them both.

I loved the new things in ME, XP, 2K, Vista, 7 you name it - 8 just doesn't do it for me yet.

Exactly my point, everyone is different. You find OSX easy to use, i find it frustrating. Everyone has a preference.
OSX has taken on some traits of iOS in the more recent versions from what i have seen and heard, but i may be mistaken so my apologies if im wrong.

I didnt say you where reistant to change, i said some people are (i did say "you" but i didnt mean you specifically it was more a generalistic statement).

Im reserving my judgement on Win8's UI until i have given it a fair go.
If i use it for a week or 2 and dont like it i would probably just decide to use the Win7 style desktop in Win8.

What overall point is that alot of people are passing judgement on Win8's UI based solely on a very limited usage time frame.
It is a huge change from Win7 but wether thats a good thing or a bad thing still remains to be seen.

[G-PhresH]

Originally Posted by OpenSystem

Which sucks If you want the best of all worlds! As you can see by Win 8, the best Gaming environment, the Windows Desktop PC, has become a secondary focus.

I dont understand this.
You can still launch games by clicking on icons, they are just larger and easier to get to.
Chances are the tiles to a game will probably show you some usage stats when developers start using Metro Tiles (BF3 character stats on a metro tile would be awesome!)

[OpenSystem]

Originally Posted by G-PhresH

I dont understand this.
You can still launch games by clicking on icons, they are just larger and easier to get to.
Chances are the tiles to a game will probably show you some usage stats when developers start using Metro Tiles (BF3 character stats on a metro tile would be awesome!)

Have you seen my steam games list?

I couldn't imagine how clustered my start menu would be if they were all metro tiles!

No, I already have Steam as one of my game managers, Origin is another along with GMG Capsual and Gamefly.

[andyroo54]

Originally Posted by power

If unifying the desktop and mobile was a great idea, Apple would have done it already but OSX and iOS are still seperate.

So.. Apple is the only company that can come up with great ideas? Of course you don't mean that. Anyway like Gfresh said, Apple are already starting to cross them together. Check out their latest OS to see the mobile integration.

Originally Posted by OpenSystem

LOL,

Has it crossed your mind that some people generally dislike the design focus of the Metro UI, that is, a predominant touch mobile focus?

Yeah no, we got it. I think everyone gets it. You don't like it. We get it. You don't have to like it, and you're not 'wrong' for not liking it.

Originally Posted by OpenSystem

What would a progression of the Aero UI look like if the development focus was primarily on desktop computing and not touch mobile aka MS Surface?

It appears as though Metro UI was designed around the Surface?

What you don't seem get though, is that although yes, the metro start works well on a tablet- if you actually use it on a desktop for an extended period of time, (more than a day) and actually use it on a tablet for an extended period of time- you get two very different but still similar experiences, and both are really good. I have win 8 on my home machine, I use it every day, then I go to work and use win 7. And do you know how much adjustment I have to make between them? None. There is no compromise.

Metro apps are very nice for tablets , but I wouldn't use them on my desktop. In all likely hood windows 8 pro will NOT come with metro apps installed by default. There's also the chance, however slim, that windows 8 pro RTM may come with classic start. The point there being- we don't know what the final version will be like because we only have beta's to go off. So making seemingly final verdicts on something that isn't released yet can be presumptuous.

If you struggle for more than a day or two trying to get used to windows 8 on a desktop (which is windows 7 with a diff start menu), then you either don't want it to work, or just lack basic skills in using a PC. I doubt the latter is true.

So that's what I'm trying to get across. That, yes, the Metro interface, and Metro apps are geared toward tablets, and you may not want a tablet, and that's fine. Because as above- windows 8 is clever enough to be both, without compromising the desktop experience.

At the same time, again without seeing RTM, I'm not entirely sure MS are expecting enterprise to take up win 8 in place of win 7 for desktops. For home use, sure. I would prefer to deploy win 8 to desktops simply because it's much faster, and having used it for some time, I realize that although initially I would get a few calls from users like yourself, they would very quickly die down. No worse than moving from XP to 7.