I wanna 5d3 already :(

[smorter]

Originally Posted by FranchiseJuan

I don't want to really check all your settings and how controlled your testing is, but all I can say is that I spent more than 2 months testing the 5D Mark II and writing the review, and all my results are varified by the other people in the office at the time.

You are of course free to look at the review which is still up along with all my test shots and samples.

I don't think I disagreed with anything you said

My experiences have been based on using the 5D2 since December 2008, and the 5D since Janurary 2011

My settings were as controlled and consistent as I could make them within the constraints of Canon's systems and software. I have a background in academic research so definitely appreciate the importance of internal validity and the concept of ceteris paribus

I'm pretty sure our comments are consistent though! I'm just saying the differences in the camera rendition is more so the difference associated with the DIGIC IV and DIGIC II chips.

If you compare all the same DIGIC generation cameras, they are all of similar output tones and colours wise:

DIGIC II: 5D, 1Ds2, 1D2/N, 400D, 30D My favourite cameras for rendition (balanced colours)
DIGIC III: 40D, 450D, 1000D, 1D3, 1Ds3 (tend to be yellower files, with low luminance noise at high ISO but higher magenta chroma noise)
DIGIC IV: 50D, 7D, 5D mark II, 1D Mark IV (tend to have a lot of chroma blotching (red and green splotches) at higher ISO and higher luminance noise caused by on chip noise reduction. Files tend to be more of a magenta cast)

[FranchiseJuan]

Originally Posted by smorter

I don't think I disagreed with anything you said

My experiences have been based on using the 5D2 since December 2008, and the 5D since Janurary 2011

My settings were as controlled and consistent as I could make them within the constraints of Canon's systems and software. I have a background in academic research so definitely appreciate the importance of internal validity and the concept of ceteris paribus

I'm pretty sure our comments are consistent though! I'm just saying the differences in the camera rendition is more so the difference associated with the DIGIC IV and DIGIC II chips.

If you compare all the same DIGIC generation cameras, they are all of similar output tones and colours wise:

DIGIC II: 5D, 1Ds2, 1D2/N, 400D, 30D My favourite cameras for rendition (balanced colours)
DIGIC III: 40D, 450D, 1000D, 1D3, 1Ds3 (tend to be yellower files, with low luminance noise at high ISO but higher magenta chroma noise)
DIGIC IV: 50D, 7D, 5D mark II, 1D Mark IV (tend to have a lot of chroma blotching (red and green splotches) at higher ISO and higher luminance noise caused by on chip noise reduction. Files tend to be more of a magenta cast)

Yeah that is pretty much what I think I got from your post. Though when I did the 5D2 review, most of the people in the forums were arguing about the validity of changing the resolution of a file to match another to compare.

In any case if you want to look at my review go here.

[[kane]]

The is absoluty no way Canon will bring out a 5D MK III this year.

- The 5 series has a 3-5 year shelf life (5D MK II is 3 years this sept)
- Canon is working on lens upgrades/new items, fish eye, 200-400 with TC.
- Canon Japan was hit hard during the recent earthquake etc in Japan. Damage to pro parts factory etc.
- If anything Canon will announce and ship a 7D MK II or the new 1Ds MK IV

The MK III if and when it comes will be backed up my a big PR/marketing push. No more soft launches for Canon.

The RRP will be over $4500 for body only.

Thanks
Kane

[Goobers]

Originally Posted by [kane]

The RRP will be over $4500 for body only.

I think they will sell <10 if they price it at $4500, because people will either buy the similarly priced (or even cheaper by the new 5D release date) 1DIII, or there will be a mass exodus from canon to Nikon as people realize that canon has no intention of being competitive with their FF body's compared to similarly spec'd Nikon body's.

[smorter]

Originally Posted by [kane]

The is absoluty no way Canon will bring out a 5D MK III this year.

- The 5 series has a 3-5 year shelf life (5D MK II is 3 years this sept)
- Canon is working on lens upgrades/new items, fish eye, 200-400 with TC.
- Canon Japan was hit hard during the recent earthquake etc in Japan. Damage to pro parts factory etc.
- If anything Canon will announce and ship a 7D MK II or the new 1Ds MK IV

The MK III if and when it comes will be backed up my a big PR/marketing push. No more soft launches for Canon.

The RRP will be over $4500 for body only.

Thanks
Kane

The 5 series only has 2 cameras - and there was exactly a 3 year gap between the 5D and 5D2. Not sure where 3-5 comes from.

Canon always has lens upgrades happening - if they put models on hold because of lens upgrades we wouldn't see any cameras ever

How hard? Canon Inc released a media statement recently saying damage was not as bad as expected and that they expect production to actually ramp up by June

Not sure re: 7D or 1Ds4

Not sure why the 5 series needs a PR push. Anyone who is a target market for this camera knows about the products that both Canon and Nikon has...you have to be pretty thick to not know about the latest FF compact offerings by both vendors

RRP for the 5D2 was $4299 - if they price it too high, as Goobers said, many people will just get the D700 replacement or something

[smorter]

Originally Posted by FranchiseJuan

Yeah that is pretty much what I think I got from your post. Though when I did the 5D2 review, most of the people in the forums were arguing about the validity of changing the resolution of a file to match another to compare.

In any case if you want to look at my review go here.

wow are you serious? You're Don Wan from Dpreview?

[lionman]

Originally Posted by smorter

Canon always has lens upgrades happening - if they put models on hold because of lens upgrades we wouldn't see any cameras ever

Not to mention the different expertise required to develop optics compared to developing electronics. I would imagine the Canon lens development team being somewhat separate from the camera development team...

[FranchiseJuan]

Originally Posted by smorter

wow are you serious? You're Don Wan from Dpreview?

Yes. But I don't work there anymore.

[Dropbear]

Originally Posted by smorter

No thanks! We shouldn't settle for a 2nd tier AF system

Nothing short of the 1 series AF in the 5D3 would be acceptable - if the 4 year old obsolete, half the price D300 and D700 can do it, so can the 5D3

Sounds like a good plan, put the absolute pro level features in the upper-prosumer cam so no one wants to buy the 1D models.

[MatterHorn]

Originally Posted by Dropbear

Sounds like a good plan, put the absolute pro level features in the upper-prosumer cam so no one wants to buy the 1D models.

Maybe an option is a new 5D gets the current 1-Series AF and the new 1Dsmk4 gets a new super-duper 1-Series/7D hybrid type AF ?

[lionman]

Originally Posted by MatterHorn

Maybe an option is a new 5D gets the current 1-Series AF and the new 1Dsmk4 gets a new super-duper 1-Series/7D hybrid type AF ?

Which should include AI that can read your mind and focus exactly on what your thinking of. Infact, it can read yuor mind and compose the shot based on your imagination adding in details that are unfortunatly lacking in reality.

[smorter]

Originally Posted by Dropbear

Sounds like a good plan, put the absolute pro level features in the upper-prosumer cam so no one wants to buy the 1D models.

Nikon does this and doesn't seem to have problems selling the D3s and D3x?

[Dropbear]

Is that like D700 with half the mega pickles of the 5d II?

[Frozen_Hell]

Originally Posted by lionman

Which should include AI that can read your mind and focus exactly on what your thinking of. Infact, it can read yuor mind and compose the shot based on your imagination adding in details that are unfortunatly lacking in reality.

Nah, that'd be a nasty feature to have. Most of the shots around here that people would take would inadvertently end up full of tits...

[smorter]

Originally Posted by Dropbear

Is that like D700 with half the mega pickles of the 5d II?

That is a fair point in the comparison between D700 and 5D2 - but - Nikon's D3/s has the same resolution and same AF as the d700 - yet it still sells VERY well.

Consequently I believe that the "don't want to cannibalise 1 series sales" argument is a fallacy

Originally Posted by FranchiseJuan

Yes. But I don't work there anymore.

That's a great accomplishment though - you've gone down in camera history!! The writer of the review for the fabled 5D2 at the top camera review site

Regarding your earlier comments about complaints about your reviews - there are pros and cons of DPreview using 100% crops to compare noise.

The only way you could have appeased the wolves was if you presented both 100% crops and equalised resolution crops, which I believe would have been the right thing for DPreview to do and concede as also equally valid.

Yes, people could have downsized/upsized the crops themselves to compare at an equal resolution level - but I think some fanboys took offence to Dpreview making conclusions about noise based on the 100% crops