Reprap open source 3D printer

[SCwerTA]

Originally Posted by SLATYE

I've recently ordered a Makibox, which I believe is the cheapest printer so far ($350 including shipping and 1kg of plastic). It's a nice small (A4 footprint), self-contained design which should make it more suitable for desktop use than some of the others.

I must say I'm quite surprised the price of these printers have dropped so dramatically. I know I've spent around $250 alone on motors and electronics for my Prusa.

Having had a quick look, the specific details of Makibox are a bit light. I couldn't find much on the electronics/firmware, print surface, hot ends etc. I'll reserve judgement on this printer till I've seen some info on that, but I will say that I think those particular elements I mentioned are quite fundamental to obtaining nice prints.

Btw, the price of PLA is quite cheap if you're willing to import from China at $8/kg.

[SLATYE]

Originally Posted by IMtech

That Makibox looks interestingly cheap!

Let us know how you go with it!

I certainly will.

Originally Posted by SCwerTA

I must say I'm quite surprised the price of these printers have dropped so dramatically. I know I've spent around $250 alone on motors and electronics for my Prusa.

I think most of the savings have been in the mechanical parts. For the Makibox this is partly just because it's small - there's less of everything, weaker motors, weaker drivers, etc. For the SeeMeCNC H-1 there were some savings from getting everything injection moulded rather than printing it.

Originally Posted by SCwerTA

Having had a quick look, the specific details of Makibox are a bit light. I couldn't find much on the electronics/firmware, print surface, hot ends etc. I'll reserve judgement on this printer till I've seen some info on that, but I will say that I think those particular elements I mentioned are quite fundamental to obtaining nice prints.

Yes, it's a bit light. Here's what I know about it:

• Footprint: slightly under A4 (280x210x210mm)
• Print area: A6 (150x110x110mm)
• Print material: ABS/PLA, 0.5kg spools contained within printer housing. Target filament diameter is 1mm (2x 0.5kg supplied with printer) but it'll be able to handle other sizes.
• Drive type: lead screws for all axes. Print head moves in the horizontal plane, build platform moves in vertical axis. Print speed is
• Electronics: planned to be RAMPS and ReplicatorG for now, possibly changed later. Motors are NEMA17 except for extruder.
• Print bed heated: yes, although with the design of the printer (an enclosed box) it's likely that it'll be more like a heated build space.

The big disadvantages are the small output size and relatively low speed (60 - 80mm/s) due to the lead screw drive. On the other hand, it's cheap, small, and very 'clean' compared to most other options.

Originally Posted by SCwerTA

Btw, the price of PLA is quite cheap if you're willing to import from China at $8/kg.

What's the shipping price like on that?

[Ch4iS]

Originally Posted by SCwerTA

Btw, the price of PLA is quite cheap if you're willing to import from China at $8/kg.

I believe the problem is the diameter, the cheap chinese stuff varies quite a bit, or well its what I have read in the past, also something about it not being completely round.

[SCwerTA]

Originally Posted by SLATYE

I certainly will.
I think most of the savings have been in the mechanical parts. For the Makibox this is partly just because it's small - there's less of everything, weaker motors, weaker drivers, etc. For the SeeMeCNC H-1 there were some savings from getting everything injection moulded rather than printing it.

I have to agree with you there. The time and effort involved in printing a set of Reprap parts is quite time consuming. It would make sense to simplify the design for cost savings.

Originally Posted by SLATYE

Yes, it's a bit light. Here's what I know about it:

• Footprint: slightly under A4 (280x210x210mm)
• Print area: A6 (150x110x110mm)
• Print material: ABS/PLA, 0.5kg spools contained within printer housing. Target filament diameter is 1mm (2x 0.5kg supplied with printer) but it'll be able to handle other sizes.
• Drive type: lead screws for all axes. Print head moves in the horizontal plane, build platform moves in vertical axis. Print speed is
• Electronics: planned to be RAMPS and ReplicatorG for now, possibly changed later. Motors are NEMA17 except for extruder.
• Print bed heated: yes, although with the design of the printer (an enclosed box) it's likely that it'll be more like a heated build space.

The big disadvantages are the small output size and relatively low speed (60 - 80mm/s) due to the lead screw drive. On the other hand, it's cheap, small, and very 'clean' compared to most other options.

I like the mechanical layout. It's is the same as the Ultimaker and having the Z-axis dedicated to the vertical axis will hopefully help with bed leveling to achieve bed adhesion with the first layer. Its one of the problems that torments me on the Prusa.

60-80mm/s is fine. I was only printing at 40mm/s not long ago till I upgraded my extruder motor to one with higher torque (78oz-in). I was using the Sparkfun steppers previously and they didn't go too well at higher speeds. I'm running at 100mm/s now though.

As for the electronics, RAMPS is a good choice, but I'm biased as that's what I'm using. Sanguinololu is also another good choice. They both use the Pololu stepper motor drivers, which are somewhat cheap and replaceable if they do die.

It's quite interesting that they're targeting 1mm filament diameter. Its not a "standard" size as far as I know. The common ones are 3mm and 1.75mm. so perhaps buying filament later may be troublesome??

Originally Posted by SLATYE

What's the shipping price like on that?

I haven't personally ordered yet from China, though I am organizing an order soon. I do believe they are much cheaper than the previous supplier in NZ I bought from which was ~$30/kg.

[SLATYE]

Originally Posted by SCwerTA

I like the mechanical layout. It's is the same as the Ultimaker and having the Z-axis dedicated to the vertical axis will hopefully help with bed leveling to achieve bed adhesion with the first layer. Its one of the problems that torments me on the Prusa.

Yes, it's much the same layout that our fancy printer at uni uses.

Originally Posted by SCwerTA

60-80mm/s is fine. I was only printing at 40mm/s not long ago till I upgraded my extruder motor to one with higher torque (78oz-in). I was using the Sparkfun steppers previously and they didn't go too well at higher speeds. I'm running at 100mm/s now though.

Okay. It probably won't make much difference with the small build space anyway.

Originally Posted by SCwerTA

As for the electronics, RAMPS is a good choice, but I'm biased as that's what I'm using. Sanguinololu is also another good choice. They both use the Pololu stepper motor drivers, which are somewhat cheap and replaceable if they do die.

There's also plenty of support for both, which is probably the most important thing.

Originally Posted by SCwerTA

It's quite interesting that they're targeting 1mm filament diameter. Its not a "standard" size as far as I know. The common ones are 3mm and 1.75mm. so perhaps buying filament later may be troublesome??

I gather that the idea is to make it a standard size.

They're selling the filament for $20/kg, if I remember correctly, so getting more is relatively straightforward. They've also said that the printer will be able to handle other diameters if necessary.

Originally Posted by SCwerTA

I haven't personally ordered yet from China, though I am organizing an order soon. I do believe they are much cheaper than the previous supplier in NZ I bought from which was ~$30/kg.

Could you post here when you get it? I'd be interested in knowing about the price (including shipping), shipping time, and quality. If we can get it cheaply from China then that's great.


Have you tried both PLA and ABS? What do you prefer, and why?

[SCwerTA]

Originally Posted by Ch4iS

I believe the problem is the diameter, the cheap chinese stuff varies quite a bit, or well its what I have read in the past, also something about it not being completely round.

The diameter could be an issue. There's a large variance with the stock I have currently as well. Quickly measuring min and max figures (2.78-3.06). But it isn't something I have noticed personally whilst printing. However, it could affect prints with the smaller diameter plastics or nozzles perhaps. Not entirely sure.

I have based most of my faith on a review on reprap forums to give the Chinese plastics a try.

Originally Posted by SLATYE

Could you post here when you get it? I'd be interested in knowing about the price (including shipping), shipping time, and quality. If we can get it cheaply from China then that's great.


Have you tried both PLA and ABS? What do you prefer, and why?

I'll be happy to post experiences on the Chinese plastic.

My opinion is that PLA is easier to use/ more beginner friendly, however I've only tried PLA so my experience is with that. I believe ABS gives off fumes and my printer is on my desk. From what I know also, ABS needs much higher temperatures to extrude and is also hard to get right for bed adhesion. PLA sticks to heated glass very firmly.

[mtma]

Originally Posted by SCwerTA

I still think the Ultimaker is a better printer. Selling it as an assembled kit takes most of the fun away from the hobby, although I can see why some would just want a working printer (albeit at a cost).

So me and a group of mates are seriously looking at getting a 3D printer and the Ultimaker is pretty much the one we're going to get.

What do people think of it now? I've been reading up and it seems that it is indeed a well thought out machine, although they had some teething issues with software packages which were limiting the versatility of the machine's performance, which seem to have been overcome a bit since.

Personally I'm quite interested to see what we can do with the results rather than the journey of building and debugging the printer myself. I do appreciate the value in well thought out machinery for what it is.

One other thing would be that I'm pretty keen on trying polycarbonate - mostly for making epoxy moulds (which also the build area will come in handy for). Has anybody tried this on their printers?



Lastly, does ABS really smell as bad as people seem to go on about? I've done ABS laser cuts before and the results are always extremely stinky - but there the ABS is actually burnt off

[SCwerTA]

Originally Posted by mtma

So me and a group of mates are seriously looking at getting a 3D printer and the Ultimaker is pretty much the one we're going to get.

What do people think of it now? I've been reading up and it seems that it is indeed a well thought out machine, although they had some teething issues with software packages which were limiting the versatility of the machine's performance, which seem to have been overcome a bit since.

Personally I'm quite interested to see what we can do with the results rather than the journey of building and debugging the printer myself. I do appreciate the value in well thought out machinery for what it is.

I'm not sure how much value I can input into this question, but I'll try my best. I've been out of the game a bit regarding current printers. There's so many different variations popping up now.

From a mechanical point of view, I think the solution the Ultimaker has gone is elegant. (I can mostly draw comparisons to what I currently have, which is the Reprap Prusa.) It reduces moving weight and parts in 2 ways compared to the Repraps;

1. Movement of the hot end in X and Y, rather than movement of the bed (and thus workpiece).
2. External extruder instead of being installed on the X axis. This is also known as the Bowden cable method for those of you interested. This method can also be applied to any 3d printer.

Also if my memory serves correct, the Z axis on the Ultimaker is using a trapezoidal lead screw that is more suited to linear motion than all-thread, which is what the Prusa has. The prusa can also be upgraded, but you've mentioned you're more interested in what it can do rather than what it could do.

Originally Posted by mtma

One other thing would be that I'm pretty keen on trying polycarbonate - mostly for making epoxy moulds (which also the build area will come in handy for). Has anybody tried this on their printers?

I can't say I have tried any other materials other than pla/abs. The main issue is finding the material as a suitable filament roll. Although admittedly, I have not thought about using anything else than what's available.

Originally Posted by mtma

Lastly, does ABS really smell as bad as people seem to go on about? I've done ABS laser cuts before and the results are always extremely stinky - but there the ABS is actually burnt off

ABS does give off a strong smell from what I've tried. PLA does as well, but its bearable and a faint odor. If you had ventilation or exhaust then I don't see it being a problem. The problem is my printer is in close proximity to my PC where I relax.


In other news, I guess I've sort of let this thread die a bit in interest, but in the last couple of months I've developed my own hot end kits for 3D printers. I have a blog for those interested in having a look. I've been able to achieve 0.25mm nozzles which give very fine resolution prints (and also increased print time)

[mtma]

Hmm, the smell poses a challenge. I wonder if it's a particulate smell like paint or if it's a finer chemical smell? If it's like paint I could probably just put up a fan and filter in or near it to catch it all. Don't really want to do the exhaust thing because it's winter at the moment, the only other option might be to chuck it into the garage and monitor it via cameras.

Also I had a look at your customised nozzle which is pretty cool actually. Though you mentioned slow - like this slow? Not sure if I could handle that - probably worse on a shared machine

[SCwerTA]

You'd probably have to try it out and see if the smell is bearable or not.

When I say increased print time, it's not so much the printer is running slow (both run at 80mm/s), but rather the printer has to cover the same amount of area with a smaller extrusion.

Also, it only takes me a few minutes to change over the hot end to a larger one if I don't need to resolution. So it doesn't bother me too much.

[mtma]

What's the primary reason why I would want to keep nozzle parts as spares?

Do they burn out or clog or something?

[SCwerTA]

Originally Posted by mtma

What's the primary reason why I would want to keep nozzle parts as spares?

Do they burn out or clog or something?

There are several reasons for hot end failures.

If your filament is dirty/dusty it can lead to a clogged nozzle, particularly with smaller sized nozzles. Cleaning them is a bit of a safety risk, as you would have to heat the nozzle to let the plastic be in a viscous state, then try and clear the orifice.

The heater resistors can burn out. They're cheap enough to have as spares. Same goes for the thermistors, cheap enough to have one or two on hand.

With some of the earlier hot ends, they used PTFE rod to mate with a nozzle. This often led to leaking of the filament at the thread (due to different cte of PTFE and brass). Current hot ends that I know of don't have those problems.

Other than hot end failures, I keep a variety of nozzles to change resolution of my printer depending on what I'm printing.

[mtma]

Getting to the stage where I have to think about filament

How did your Chinese filament order go? About how much should I be paying for the ABS/PLA and are any of the local suppliers any good?

[Gazob]

Originally Posted by SLATYE

I've recently ordered a Makibox, which I believe is the cheapest printer so far ($350 including shipping and 1kg of plastic). It's a nice small (A4 footprint), self-contained design which should make it more suitable for desktop use than some of the others.

Do you have an expected delivery on this yet, looking at the makibot website it looks a little light in the forums on people actually having completed builds and probucing items. The price is impressive, the build area is workable, not so tiny as to be a real issue but always nicer if it was bigger.

Im at the researching stage at this point and prior to looking at the makibot had been tossing between mendelmax, Prusa, and solidoodle. Im neither the best or worst at completeing the build projects I start, but the idea of prebuilt is enticing, but the idea of having built it myself and can therefore fix it, and enhance it is also enticing.

More reading to do yet.

GaZ

[UncleRes]

I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts on the new wave of DLP UV Activated Resin 3D Printers (B9Creator, MiiCraft, etc).

Personally I see these machines as a revolution in resolution for the Open Source 3DP crowd, and I'm excited to see where it takes the industry as a whole.