IBM 5160 XT Restoration Project

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade' started by iMic, Dec 11, 2016.

  1. mr626

    mr626 Member

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    If I could help you with the keyboard I would, but none of mine are period correct for what you are doing and I'm not even sure that they would work :(
     
  2. dacow

    dacow Member

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    Here is a page which lists some sound card options for you :)

    I guess if you don't mind being period correct there are 16 bit options listed in that page :)

    Out of curiousity, I started looking around and also found this thread that seems to indicate CT1730/1740 SB16 cards might work.

    Probably a bit expensive but Ebay has a 1740 from Greece :)

    I'm sure I've got a SB2.0 rev0 (non CMS chip compatible) floating around somewhere but I'm guessing you would prefer a rev4 so you can stick Flaming Joe's chips on it :)

    Edit: There's always the rare Media Vision Thunderboard which always commands a premium.

    Or there's this weird ass yumcha Sound Blaster knock off which I have never heard of/seen before lol

    And if you are feeling rich.. these come up not that often. boxed Adlib :shock::shock::shock::shock:
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2016
  3. iMic

    iMic Member

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    Checked this evening. The processor is an AMD 8088:

    D8088 8407GMA (c) 1982 AMD


    Could still be interested if there were anything cool there and somewhat close, around the 1980s IBM. Some repairs are to be expected.

    That said I should really have the machine running before investing in peripherals... but I suppose that's how these projects go. :)


    A couple of minor updates to share.

    I've come across an old ESS AudioDrive ISA 16-Bit sound card that appears to be compatible with 8-bit ISA, and it has manual DMA and IRQ jumpers onboard so it isn't a PnP card. While it's somewhat new for the machine and not exactly what I was looking for, it would still be interesting to see if it works.


    The Seagate ST-412 has started to produce some bearing whine, which doesn't bode well for the old drive. I injected some lithium grease around some of the moving parts which has helped with some of the noise, but it still sounds louder than I think it should.

    If the bearing is press fit into the casting, I'd be interested to see what type of bearing it is and whether it could be swapped out for an equivalent series. It would require removing the platters, spindle motor and head stack which is a significant amount of work, but if the drive does fail, it'll make for an interesting experiment. I'm accustomed to having bearings pressed in automotive applications, but this would be different on many levels.

    The MiniScribe drive that came out of the machine is still serviceable in case the Seagate does need to come out for additional repairs, so the XT won't be without a drive. I still prefer the Seagate however, so hopefully this can be addressed soon.
     
  4. JustRight

    JustRight Member

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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  5. andyroo54

    andyroo54 Member

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    "condition close to scrap" it looked pretty good to me? Dusty for sure but I've seen way worse.
     
  6. Quick Reply

    Quick Reply Member

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    Wow! This takes me back to my first PC!

    I still have the MFM drive from that containing -my childhood- hopefully one day I find someone in Melbourne who's able to read MFM hard drives so that I can get the data off it!
     
  7. okclock123

    okclock123 Member

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  8. Flamin Joe

    Flamin Joe Member

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  9. v81

    v81 Member

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    The first PC i had (not owned, was a long term loan) was similar to what you've restored.
    Things you could run..
    Used to run dos 5.0 and dosshell.
    Games i played were Pipedream and Xananoid (or similar, kinda forget the name, was my fave).
    Had a ship and you shot aliens coming down the screen, you could buy upgrades from an alien dealer etc..
    Word processors and spreadsheet apps of the era.
     
  10. nidz

    nidz Member

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    My first PC was an IBM XT running @ 16mhz with a yellow turbo button that would push it up to 18mhz.. Blistering fast.. even has a 9600bps modem and a null modem. My first introduction to the world of PC computing.

    I has 2 x full height WD 20MB hard drives in it and ISA video card. At the time it was cutting edge. I still have the memory DINNS that it had. Unfortunately threw out the case, motherboard and IDE controller board.

    Good restore. If you look up youtube there's some great videos on restoring the yellow keyboard plastic back to the original beige colour.
     
  11. de_overfiend

    de_overfiend Member

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    i used to play pool of radiance and moria on a system very similar to this one back in the day... when VESA was all the rage... oh the memories *sigh*
     
  12. nidz

    nidz Member

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    I remember hav ing a 2MB Tseng Labs ET6000 video card. One of my first PCI video cards after my old ISA cards. Now I have 2GB video card.. Amazing how the times change..
     
  13. sonicthemouse

    sonicthemouse Member

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    I have a couple, you can't have the "correct" one from my 5150 but it's rubbish anyway, the layout is odd and some of the keys don't work properly.

    But I have a couple of old Model M's and a Model F, any of which should be fine. I'll keep at least one or 2 but I think I have 5+.

    Love your project and others like it:

    Yep I'm glad I'm not the only one still keen on these old things - bYrd has a thread about meet-ups so I'm hoping something gets off the ground in Melbourne :thumbup:

    Also I've got a bucketload of the original software that came with my 5150, so if you need a copy of any of the programs I can try to assist - although I will have to find my stash of 360kb DD disks :lol:

    Now just gotta track down an IBM 5100 :lol: :D
     
  14. iMic

    iMic Member

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    Probably should have phrased that differently. The machine was and is certainly serviceable, not scrap, but to its previous owner it was. When I collected it, it was stacked with some scrap metal ATX cases.

    The components inside were all good, but the paintwork on the bottom of the case was worn through in some places and thin in others. There were some bare metal scratches and scuffs, an invitation for rust, and it did need some work to return it to a satisfactory condition.

    Still, not a condition close to scrap. Anyone that knew what it was would have considered it more than serviceable.


    Wouldn't happen to have some of those around still by chance?

    I've been out of this project for a while for various reasons but figured it was time to start looking into it again. A suitable keyboard would absolutely be welcome.

    Eventually I'll need to look into an alternative storage option as well. The Seagate ST-412 is a brilliant drive and a piece of history in itself, but the bearings inside the motor have seen better days and occasionally it does whine when it's warmed up. Seems to be relatively common on the older Seagates, not sure if it's something that could be repaired with some micro-surgery to the motor assembly or whether another drive is the best option.

    If another drive was needed, I wouldn't mind something like a Seagate ST-225, but anything from around the era will suffice. Beggars can't be choosers, but as is mandatory with these MFM drives, the louder the seek noises, the better.


    I did come across a somewhat better monitor for it as well. An IBM 8513 Colour VGA. It's not the original monitor, and is intended to match the newer IBM Personal System/2, but it suits the machine better than the LCD previously connected to it.

    [​IMG]

    (Not my picture, but you get the idea.)
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  15. sonicthemouse

    sonicthemouse Member

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    Yeah still got 'em all, at last count there was:
    1x Model F Extended Layout (keeping that)
    2x Model M Extended Layout (both have 5-pin connectors but I think one is XT protocol and one is AT protocol?)
    1x Model M PS/2 (keeping that also)

    There might also be one more, pretty sure I had 5 :paranoid:

    For your system I think you'd need the XT-based Extended Layout Model M, if that suits, PM me with a price and if we can come to an agreement, I can test it out and send it over to you :thumbup:
     
  16. iMic

    iMic Member

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    PM sent. :)


    I purchased some extra bits and pieces earlier this evening. At least, I expected a few pieces, but ended up with somewhat more than that.

    [​IMG]

    The IBM XT is a chassis modified to house a newer ATX board. It's a decent modification as well, complete with 3.5" HDD mounts and a slot-load CDROM drive mounted inside the 5.25" Floppy. The enclosure has been cut and drilled, so not much to work with there, but it does come complete with case screws, plastics and brackets that will complete the good XT case, along with spares.

    The second machine is an XT Clone. This machine is mostly complete, needing only some various parts, cards and screws to complete it. Because it's an interesting machine, I'll probably restore this one too. I have spare drives, cards and components from my travels in sourcing parts for the original XT, so this should be a relatively easy process. It contains a Siemens SAB8086-2-P processor with an Intel C8087-2 FPU (Ceramic Package). The Intel FPU would probably serve well in the genuine XT, but I'll see what happens.


    [​IMG]

    Western Digital MFM/RLL controller cards. I've been searching for these for a while now. They should be compatible with the Seagate ST-213 I have stored away, so it'll be interesting to see if it works.


    [​IMG]

    These are the most exciting pieces of cork I've ever had. These are replacement case feet for the IBM XT and Model M keyboards. The XT enclosure needed some of these after repainting, but I didn't expect to find a set made to genuine specifications and from the same material. Very cool.

    Alongside them is a set of genuine IBM MFM cables as spares, and a LaserROM card that - from what I can tell - is a CDROM drive controller.


    Now, onto the really good stuff...

    [​IMG]

    What do we have here...

    [​IMG]

    Aha! An XT-IDE!

    This allows a CompactFlash card or IDE HDD to be used as a bootable drive or data transfer drive between the IBM XT and a newer machine. Very nifty.


    Something I forgot to take pictures of (and now that I'm ready for bed, can't be arsed doing it), is the mouse I picked up. It's a Microsoft InPort Bus Mouse and InPort Controller Card.

    [​IMG]


    Looking forward to testing some of this equipment out.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2017
  17. damnation

    damnation Member

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    My parents had almost exactly this model when i was born (1983). I inherited it due to being the only person knowing how to use it. I trashed it as a kid when it was superceded by newer models. I wish I had kept it either as is or for a desktop build one day. Good work btw!
     
  18. Flamin Joe

    Flamin Joe Member

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    Nice score! Great to see more XT's in the world still getting some love. :thumbup:

    It's interesting to see the early XT clones and how much of a "clone" they are compared to later XT's which branched off into different designs. That one sort of follows the same IBM PC/XT look in terms of drive placement, but I've seen others which look almost identical to the original IBM PC/XT that at first glance you'd think it was! Quite literally a clone in every sense. Cheeky buggers! :lol:

    Where did you get these from? I could do with some replacements.

    Very cool! FYI for anyone interested in doing this there are alternative ways of using XT-IDE with components you may have already. If you have a card which has a boot ROM such as a Network card, you can burn the XT-IDE BIOS onto a EPROM chip and utilise it's socket to boot the ROM. Then all you need is a IDE controller card (doesn't matter if it's 16-bit ISA) and the XT-IDE BIOS will pick it up and detect whatever you have attached to it. Can be a very cost effective way of using XT-IDE without having to spend $70+ on the card. :thumbup:
     
  19. iMic

    iMic Member

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    The person I bought the other machines from happened to have some around, so I was rather fortunate in that regard, but I believe he had them custom made by a business specialising in making gaskets.

    The machine feet are 40mm diameter / 3mm thick, and the keyboard feet are 15mm diameter / 2mm thick.



    A small progress report. I opened the Clone XT's power supply to service it, and while the outside label says "American", the internals certainly say "Taiwanese". It isn't a terrible power supply, but it needed some repairs to the solder joints on the 240v inlet.

    I ended up having to trim back the wires, wick up the old solder and start fresh. It certainly holds a lot better now, and a quick continuity test with the multimeter shows we're good to go. Also, in case I haven't mentioned it before, I hate solder flux. Still scrubbing that stuff off my hands.

    [​IMG]


    I transferred the Intel 8087 math coprocessor into the IBM XT, installed the XT-IDE, cleaned up the exterior of the case and finished replacing all the screws with the IBM hex-head slotted originals.

    Still need to make a template for positioning the feet and affix those, transfer the plastic cap from the donor shell to the restored shell, reaffix the factory labels and case badges, source a CGA-VGA breakout converter, install the Microsoft InPort Bus Card, make an OPL2 AdLib compatible sound card and install some software on the machine.

    All with time, of course.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2017
  20. Flamin Joe

    Flamin Joe Member

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    Ah ok. I thought you might of found someone selling some on another forum I didn't know about. :) There were some being sold on VCF quite a few years back, interestingly they said they found a couple of hole punches at a hobby store which were the right size to do it yourself.
     

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