1. OCAU Merchandise now available! Check out our 20th Anniversary Mugs, Classic Logo Shirts and much more! Discussion here.
    Dismiss Notice

~$1600 DSLR Shootout

Discussion in 'Photography & Video' started by jozzas, Nov 26, 2006.

  1. DoCsIs

    DoCsIs Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2002
    Messages:
    1,494
    Location:
    Sydney
    Have a look here:
    http://www.d-d-photographics.com.au/nikond80.htm
    $1789 for D80 and the amazingly good 18-70 Lens.
     
  2. jimmy

    jimmy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    2,089
    Location:
    Toowoomba, QLD
    ive never had to pay anything with them on import, they have always marked the price lower, ive bought quite a bit, big things being L lens and 30d
     
  3. cbb1935

    cbb1935 Guest

    Hey Jozzas,

    Having just done this exercise myself and tossed up between the Sony & Canon, let me give you a bit of an idea..

    YOU LISTED:

    Canon 400D:
    ==========
    Pros:
    - Low noise at high ISO.. Absolutely.. the other night I was shooting ISO 1600 at the Speedway on f4.5-5 75-300mm lens. Sure some shots turned out shit, but the ones that came out and hit the spot, did so with bugger all noise. It leaves the Sony for dead in this area.

    Cons:
    - Uncomfortable/small grip (I have big hands, can anyone confirm?)... Actually its the other way around. I have really small hands, the Sony felt great, but I feared the 400D and me with small hands I wouldnt be able to grip it correctly, but amazing you get used to it very fast. I cant see someone with big hands having a problem with it.

    - No internal image stabilisation .. To be honest I don't think the Sony's IIS makes "that big" a difference, and at the end of the day, you can purchase USM/IS lenses for the Canon need be. I'm using stock twin lens, and my hands naturally shake, and so I just adjust the ISO sometimes, or shoot from a tripod to counteract it. I havent seen my shaking hands make a huge detrimental effect to my shots.

    - No secondary LCD .. The single LCD makes sense in many ways, and is very easy to read. Its backlit and adjustable in brightness btw, so viewing it is really easy.

    Sony A100:
    =========
    Cons:
    - Higher noise levels .. When shopping around I already owned a Compactdrive so took it to 2 shops, fired out photos at every ISO range on each camera (Sony and Canon), and then compared. The Sony keeps up at ISO50/100/200. It almost keeps up at 400, but after that the Canon is miles ahead.

    - Availability of bodies and lenses .. And the price. The CZ lenses are coming out for the A100, but the price of them.. oh my god I almost died.. You could get a low "f" USM IS lens from Canon for the same amount.

    Then there is the whole "Sony Gold Resellers ONLY" that can sell/buy Sony cameras and accessories. They dogged other Sony sellers, by sending out the stock, then recalling it back after they realised some stores were not Sony Gold Resellers. Shows Sony are all about the money.
    ============================

    At the end of the day I was hell bent on the Sony DSLR, until I spent an HR at Fletchers with the salesperson holding and playing with the 400D. Within 60-80minutes I had my answer without a doubt.

    So I'd recommend heading to the stores, and have a decent play with the cameras (not 5-10 mins) I'd say hold each for at least 30mins and have a play. You should have an clear idea by then.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2006
  4. adz

    adz Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,524
    Location:
    ಠ-ಠ
    I would never consider a 400D for this reason alone, same goes for the 300D, 350D and any other SLR that has a wimpy little grip. I've shot with a 20D, a 5D, a 1Dm2, a D2X and of course my D70s and D200, they all feel comfortable to hold and I enjoy(ed) using them. Even my little Yashica FX-7 feels more comfortable than the 400D. I suppose a person with small hands could get away with it, but anyone with average to large hands who thinks its comfortable to hold is telling porky's.
     
  5. anthonyl

    anthonyl Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2002
    Messages:
    11,258
    Location:
    Brisbane
    My wife says I have big hands...and I have no problems holding the 400D. :thumbup:
     
  6. adz

    adz Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,524
    Location:
    ಠ-ಠ
    So you don't find having your little finger dangling around with nothing to hold onto uncomfortable? Strange... :confused:
     
  7. Ronza

    Ronza Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    3,148
    You owned an IS lens before on your 400D?

    The difference is huge. Look at the 70-200/4L models for instance and their price variation for the IS element. Just imagine having that advantage sticking all your lenses on. I've used the 400D and it's small in comparison to every other Canon dSLR but ultimately, the guy who owned it found it fine after a few days.
     
  8. anthonyl

    anthonyl Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2002
    Messages:
    11,258
    Location:
    Brisbane
  9. adz

    adz Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,524
    Location:
    ಠ-ಠ
    Hmmm, thats strange, today a friend bought himself a Pentax K100D with inbuilt image stabilisation and I was able to take a rather nice looking handheld shot with a 0.3 second exposure, certainly not a big difference at all...
     
  10. cbb1935

    cbb1935 Guest

    As mentioned I have used both the 400D (I own one) and the A100 in testing.

    In the tests I moved my hand more than it normally shakes.

    The 400D was worse, but if you crank the ISO up its fine.

    E.G ISO 800 on 400D was just as good as ISO 400 on Sony (but any higher on the Sony in terms of ISO and its noisy as hell).

    The Sony did a better job of the mild shakes, but its nothing that bumping up the ISO on the 400D cant contend with. Most long exposure shots you should use a tripod anyway Ive read.
     
  11. Ronza

    Ronza Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2004
    Messages:
    3,148
    The stablisation system in the Sony A100 is supposed to be 2-3.5 stops as quoted by review sites and the manufacturer. That a heck of alot more than ISO800 and ISO400.

    What happens when you're shooting indoors with "mood lighting" and both cameras are at ISO1600 :lol:

    Yes I am a Canon lover but to completely discount in-camera stabilsation to be worth one stop I believe isn't quite accurate.
     
  12. cbb1935

    cbb1935 Guest

    I agree there Ronza, but it makes little difference.

    You are weighing up very grainy higher ISO, against a clear higher ISO, with the chance of some handshake.

    I'm not discounting the IIS in the Sony, its a great idea, but the problem is that you are still limited to ISO400 max, before noise is a major issue.

    Also ask around most of the professional camera shops and they will tell you that in body stabilisation is not as good as on lens stablisation (something to do with slowing down the camera fractionally when taking shots to allow for IS). I didnt fully understand the technical side of it though as I'm still learning. But 4 out of 5 shops said lens IS is better.

    OP: Check out here - http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/page17.asp - Noise comparisons.

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos400d/page23.asp - ISO 100 Comparisons.
     
  13. sir_bazz

    sir_bazz Team Papparazi

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    9,759
    Location:
    Mentone, Vic.
    I'll have both thanks.

    Good high ISO performance AND internal shake reduction is available now but just not on the cameras you mentioned.

    cheers,
    bazz.
     
  14. cbb1935

    cbb1935 Guest

    Nikon? Or are you talking of the Pentax K10D?
     
  15. Kyl3

    Kyl3 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    3,035
    Location:
    The Hunter
    Nikon sucks for higher iso's... can prove the point if nessecary... :(
     
  16. Rasman

    Rasman Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2003
    Messages:
    751
    Location:
    Cambodia
    sensor shift IS sucks IMHO. I would love to see someone try sensor shift IS with a fisheye lens (or more to the point, on a lens with any kind of distortion, and yes I understand IS won't do much at wide angles anyway) or on a lens prone to vignetting, or when shooting with lens flare (intentional or not)

    Also, canon will never go to sensor shift IS because you can't use in lens IS with sensor shift IS (the optics bend the beam to where the sensor would be if it was stationary, while the sensor has shifted to somewhere else = bluuur)

    another vote for canon 400D
     
  17. Gumball

    Gumball Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    339
    Location:
    Moore Park, Sydney
    I got the K10D today and totally disagree about sensor IS. I have taken quite a few pics with the SR on and off today and achieved clear shots @ 50mm 1/16 with 400 iso.

    Lens IS may be better but it is not worth thousand of dollars more in cost.

    PS 400D has nothing on the K10D...
     
  18. annandin

    annandin Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2004
    Messages:
    912
    Location:
    Hobart
    If you have a D80 then go ahead, otherwise it's a bit of a unfair comparison.
     
  19. sir_bazz

    sir_bazz Team Papparazi

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    9,759
    Location:
    Mentone, Vic.
    You can turn sensor shake reduction off you know :p

    Just like many other features on a camera you only use it when you need it.

    bazz.
     
  20. jimmy

    jimmy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    2,089
    Location:
    Toowoomba, QLD
    from things ive read in the past the nikon vibration reduction gives pretty constant results no mater which lens length and is slightly better on the shorter end than canon, where as canon keeps getting better than nikon the further over the 300mm mark you go. At 400mm canon's IS can maintain sharp images as much as five stops better then nikon.

    Personally none of my lens's have got IS and from what ive used so far upto 300mm i dont think i really need it, especially for the price i can make do without it.
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: