<3yr old dead iPhone - normal?

Discussion in 'Apple iOS (OS & Devices)' started by wvxman, Jun 1, 2018.

  1. Hater

    Hater Member

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    The fine print in regards to the Apple 24 month/ACL requirements, which is a supplement to the terms of the one year Apple limited warranty docs you get with every Apple device. The one they make you read in the store off the iPad when signing stuff
     
  2. OP
    OP
    wvxman

    wvxman Member

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    I haven't had that pleasure. When you say they make you read off the iPad, is it this webpage?
    https://www.apple.com/au/legal/statutory-warranty/

    I'm still trying to work out what your belief is. Was there something in that fine print or the process of entering a contract, that sought to waive or exclude your consumer rights under the ACL? My understanding is that, for all intents and purposes, that would be unlawful.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
  3. Hater

    Hater Member

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    No, what i'm saying is that the consumer right under the ACL must expire at 2 years for Apple products, otherwise Apple wouldn't list it as two years for their products... ie) they're assholes, 2 years is the absolute minimum their lawyers must have negotiated... if that makes sense

    For this reason it's one year for... Apple Watch I think.

    Hell yeah, it still works!

    [​IMG]

    Too bad the battery is toast.

    Took the picture on top of an invoice for another product I recently bought a whole lot of brand new factory OEM parts for, except the difference is that that other product is 46 years old.

    I think it sucks that I can't pay money to get Apple to replace the battery in an iPhone 5, let alone an original iPhone! It's only 10 years old.
     
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    wvxman

    wvxman Member

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    Their lawyers can't negotiate to effectively exclude a right in legislation... also Apple don't list the consumer right as two years for their products.
    It says that Apple will "provide its own remedies equivalent to those in the ACL". This is not the same as Apple providing a remedy under the ACL.

    The reason that Apple voluntarily offers "equivalent remedies" to those under the ACL for a period 24 months after purchase is because the Australian network carriers sold and continue to sell, a bunch of their phones on 24 month contracts. Hundreds/thousands of device major failures occurred 13 months after purchase, so consumers were left with a dud phone and being charged for a service they couldn't use. Quite rightly, they complained to the regulator when Telstra, Optus, Vodafone and Apple made misleading statements about ACL remedies.

    All the same, Apple didn't want to change their global policy on 12 month statutory warranty, so instead they came up with a solution specifically for Australia, offering a no questions asked guarantee to cover the 24 month contract period. If you don't believe me, read about it:

    https://www.afr.com/business/retail/apple-gives-australians-twoyear-warranty-20131218-iyez5
    https://www.accc.gov.au/media-relea...ts-consumer-guarantees-policies-and-practices
    https://www.accc.gov.au/media-relea...s-compliance-with-the-australian-consumer-law

    Apple's 24 month guarantee has no bearing on the Apple Watch, because it already comes with a 2 year statutory warranty.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  5. Stooge007

    Stooge007 Member

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    i have had several products replaced/refunded outside the "warranty" period

    the latest win was a $150 car battery that died 2 years + 3 months after purchase, i didn't have a receipt just a credit card statement showing date of purchase and price, and eventually got that refunded (well credited to the cost of a new battery)

    depends how much your time is worth, as it's generally a LOT of fluffing around, loads of conversations/emails (that you should be making note of time and date + reference number/who you spoke to etc.)

    as you have found, there is no contracting out of the statutory warranties provided by the ACL

    a $400 fridge may be expected to last 3-5 years, whereas a $4000 fridge would be expected to last longer than 3-5 years

    exactly how long something should last will vary from product to product and also how it is used by the consumer

    i personally think that 2.5 years on a $1200+ phone is worth kicking up a stink over, but again it's going to be a long fight and you'll have to toss up whether your time is worth the effort
     
  6. Sinisstar

    Sinisstar Member

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    I think the old saying of they don't make them like they used to really applies here, My old 3GS and 4s are still kicking but I had an iPhone 6 and a 7 plus kick the bucket and I look after my phones.
     
  7. tobes

    tobes Member

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    Original iPhone imported from US. Still used daily although admittedly sits in a dock and plays white noise for the kids exclusively.
    iPhone 4 - used on and off mainly for daily Audible sessions at the moment.
    6+ - Used for Dev/Test/kids - totally died/bricked a month or so ago while it was charging in the car.
    6S+ - Wife's main phone (many hours of use a day....)
    7+ - My main phone (lotsa use) battery is starting to get shit. Can't really make it through a day without charging in normal use.
     
  8. th3_hawk

    th3_hawk Member

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    When it comes to the ACL, the commonly accepted rule and the reason for the 24 months was because of the pretty standard 24 month mobile phone contract. You can attempt to argue otherwise but as has been said, it comes down to how much your time is worth.

    My last upgrade was from an iPhone6+ to an 8+, unfortunately the 6+ packed it in about a week before the 8+ was released (making it 1 week off 3 years old) and I got a similar story to you, outside ACL and it will cost you $$$. In my case it died because of a known issue "Touch disease" so they offered a replacement for the cost of the screen which was $209 from memory. Given this phone was destined to be handed down to my eldest kid I was about to pay $100 for Apple to replace the battery anyway so figured it wasn't too bad a deal for an essentially brand new phone and battery.

    IMHO if you manage to successfully argue that it should be replaced under ACL it will likely be a special "one off", "good will", "shutup and go away" sort of deal.


    But to consider your original question, how long *should* the warranty be? Given the daily hell these high tech devices have to go through, two years isn't terrible, three would be pretty nice (and I'd guess that the impact would be somewhat limited as many (most?) people might just upgrade before then.

    That seems pretty long for a mobile phone, I had a quick google and couldn't see anything confirming that.

    While I know SFA about this company, they look a bit like Choice?? In any case, this page seems to have similar wording to what I understand is used to argue the Australian ACL position:

    "You could argue that a handset sold on a two-year contract is only ‘fit for purpose’ if it lasts two years."

    https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/my-mobile-phone-is-faulty-what-can-i-do
     
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    OP
    wvxman

    wvxman Member

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    I thought some closure to this thread was in order, and also as an opportunity to say thanks for contributing to the discussion and contest of ideas.

    I did take this matter to Court. The outcome was that I got all of my money back (i.e. a full refund) plus court costs.

    Regarding the 24 month guarantee, my suspicions were confirmed during the listing hearing; that Apple's 24 month guarantee is a policy and has no bearing on their statutory obligations under the Act.
    The Court reiterated the position articulated by the ACCC; that the goods should be fit for their common purposes for as long as a reasonable consumer expects them to last.
    I deliberately used Apple publications to support my reasoning and claim, and it took about 2 minutes for the Magistrate to make up their mind after that.

    If anyone wants to know more, PM me ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
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  10. ipv6ready

    ipv6ready Member

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    I would say Apple and Samsung (high end) will lose all court cases for products that fail without sign of abuse if less than 3 years and even possibly 4 year old phones and tablets.

    Just a matter of sticking it out and patiently filling out forms and send8ng it back.

    Best approach would be buy a new Device than follow through knowing 100% you will get your money back.
     
  11. power

    power Member

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    Good result hardly surprised you won to be honest. Most of these type of cases are won by the consumer as most consumers are not motivated to go this far and just fold when a retailer tells them something.
     
  12. l_ QuadX_l

    l_ QuadX_l Member

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    Most I've ever spent on one phone was $450 outright on a brand new Samsung Galaxy S3 same year it was released. It's still works and charges fine, but I prefer to get the best high end second hand phone for the best possible price and replace more often. Newer/better featured phones are released so fast and have shorter support cycles so become obsolete quickly, I just can't see the point unless you have large amounts of cash to burn, or your business requires that specific hardware/software and phone basically pays itself off. I can't imagine ever paying 1k for a phone, hell I could build a brand new fast computer for less than that!

    You must be running your J7 Pro on Ultra/Max power saving settings.. my S7 Active's 4000mah battery needs charging every 2 days with normal use. Then again your phone is newer, probably more efficient processor, less ram and lower resolution, but at least is easy to buy in Australia unlike the Samsung Active series mainly sold in US.

    Interesting comparison!
    https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=8004&idPhone2=8561
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  13. callan

    callan Member

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    No, power saving mode is OFF. the J7 pro is 1080P AMOLED.

    Interestingly it received the long-promised upgrade from Nougat from 7.0 to Oreo 8.1 last week. That makes it 4 firmware upgrades in 9 months which, for Samsung I'll take as a passing grade, and certainly an anomaly for Samsung.

    The only observable changes have been in security, which can only be good. (The Samsung skinning engine is actually really, really fucking awesome..)

    Look, it has NFC/Android pay/Samsung pay, a vaguely usable fingerprint sensor, Awesome 1080P OLED screen, a virtualized Android virtual vault for security, 2.4 + 5 Ghz Wifi, Decent camera (and a LOT better with the Oreo upgrade!) which is FLUSH with the case: FM radio and a headphone jack. It's perceptibly lag-free and has a decent high-capacity SD card slot. The camera is flush with the back (wha'ts with this camera sticking out from the case being "acceptable" in a form factor anyway??? I never got that memo) And fucking fantastically awesome battery life that last as long as my legendary Nokia 3210 GSM phone from 15 years ago.

    And it only cost me $450 bucks. (Unlocked)

    What's not to love. I genuinely think I found my unicorn.

    Callan

    edit: in case you're wondering whether I'm bullshitting about battery life:

    Screenshot_20180519-002557.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
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  14. l_ QuadX_l

    l_ QuadX_l Member

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    Nice, Callan thanks for sharing that info and glad you've found a phone you love to use. Also that's fantastic your phone got oreo 8 as the S7A only gets the 8.0 update if connected to a US phone carrier (mines an ex AT&T phone) or through messing around with custom firmware updates. Maybe my s7A's battery is degraded, could be the issue even though everything I've tested it with says it's OK and healthy? I'm actually researching Sony phones as I have seriously missed my very old Xperia 10i and also newer Sony phones sound phenomenal! Will let you know if I get one and if they live up to all the hype I read about in reviews :D.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
  15. ipv6ready

    ipv6ready Member

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    This thread should be stickied, since Apple just added IPhone 7 to 8 to battery slow down.
     
  16. DarkYendor

    DarkYendor Member

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    I ordered an iPhone 5 at release, had the battery replaced for free by Apple (bad batch), and my Mum is still using it. That's >6 years.
    I had an iPhone 6 not long after they came out, and my Dad is still using that (paid to replace the battery in that, but they're now available from Apple for $39). That's >4 years.

    I'm generally sticking with a phone for 3 years these days, then replace the battery and give it to a family member.
     
  17. walker_2003

    walker_2003 Member

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    I have an iPad 3 wifi that is insane.. it has been on all day every day for last 4 years, the screen is lit with video footage (of kids bedrooms) all night every night 7pm-7am and even off charge the battery lasts hours. No signs of issues with screen either its had many thousands of hours display time.
     
  18. callan

    callan Member

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    Our ipad2 is still running fine, as is our 3GS (Although I had to replace the battery a couple of years ago: iFixit special :p

    Callan
     
  19. power

    power Member

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    poor iPad 2, the last iOS update it got just killed the usability of it (made it much slower) but the battery life on them is still quite good.
     
  20. callan

    callan Member

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    Ya, we noticed it become significantly - stuttery. iPads are not our first choice: (we're an Android household) so that doesn't bother us much.

    Callan
     

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