5G Wifi Network - The future is here, today.

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by Bourke, May 27, 2019.

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  1. Bourke

    Bourke Member

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    I think I saw a news piece/ paid advertising on 5G roll-out being available now, went to go check it out and here you go.

    https://www.optus.com.au/shop/broadband/5g

    https://www.telstra.com.au/coverage-networks/5G

    If you go there, it has a roll-out map of available suburbs that have some sort of coverage.

    What you do is, see the drop down menu's and if your suburb is there, you can apply for an Expression of Interest to be short listed when it comes online.

    The reasoning for me is upgrade my 4G Home to a 5G Home and see if any better, mostly for ping would be great.
    Price wise for the monthly package is around the same, but my current is 200gb a month and the Optus deal is Unlimited, which for me would be interesting since I use around 40gb a month at most.

    When I put in my actual address, I couldn't apply for the EOI, I am actually 2km's out of range of that suburb, so I jus changed the address to one that worked..LOL
    My mailing address will be my home address anyways so shouldn't be an issue.
    And if you go the Telstra roll-out map, it shows actual coverage and i'm in that one, but not the drop-down menu one.

    Anyway fingers crossed for a lower ping, if I do get on it there might be at most 50-100 ppl on the whole network with me for a couple months, my own wireless network...:lol::lol::lol:
     
  2. caspian

    caspian Member

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    I really can't see how 5G is supposed to magically deliver lower latency. the primary differences from existing networks seem to be running many more, smaller cells, and centralising a lot of the network processing.

    there are obvious advantages to reducing the number of devices per cell and thus opening up bandwidth in the RF domain, but the carriers still need to provide adequate uplink bandwidth from the cells to the network core. that's going to cost more money, not less, because running less users on a smaller capacity link is inherently less efficient, plus there are fixed costs per link and cell (site, access, power, physical equipment costs) which don't just scale down. does anyone think that the carriers are going to spend more money to provide a better service at the same retail price? the reality is that the service is either going to cost us more than we are paying nor, or the potential will be theoretical only - especially when any sort of peak demand hits.

    I can't speak to how centralising the network processing will change the characteristics of the service, other than new kit is almost always better than old kit, but again it has to be paid for - and 4G is hardly obsolete. so the retail cost goes up again to depreciate horribly expensive network equipment that is written off far before it is actually worn out. I have read that the network design is SDN (so is everything else these days) which does allow flexibility, which does allow some efficiency, but that's an incremental step and not a quantum leap. I also see that it allows for multicast-like functions like data caching for multiple user consumption, but I have always suspected that works great during the opening ceremony of the Olympics, the football grand final, Bathurst and not much else. there's a huge internet out there and people aren't all watching or reading the same thing.

    data allowance is a combination of external peering costs and internal bandwidth capacity, other then the data caching I do not see anything that will make that cheaper for the carriers.

    overall - 5G appears to be an evolutionary step, like 4G was from 3G. a bit faster, a bit more flexible, a bit more reliable, but at the expense of significantly higher costs. it's evolution, not revolution, and it's not going to be cheaper to use.
     
  3. evilasdeath

    evilasdeath Member

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    I agree with all of those points. They have be had time and time again by those that build amd know carrier networks.

    Nobody seams to care thou :(

    Wireless is the future they say, but many people on a 1:1 user to wifi cell on their home network gets abmismal performance. There is alwats those group of users that go i get great performance on 4g and sprout speedtest results. Still forgetting that only about ~5% of australians data comes from mobile the rest from fixed line. Yet they still says
    we should all jump to mobile. Most numpties cant even tell the difference to when they are on mobile or on wireless, they are both wireless right.....

    This massive echo chamber exists and the telcos love it.
     
  4. power

    power Member

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    for anyone that remembers 4G was better when it first lauched, early 5G will be about the best it can ever be.

    I remember the network speed dropping when Apple released a compatible iPhone.
     
  5. caspian

    caspian Member

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    I got a 3gs on launch day, but I do recall being pretty scared to use it for much due to the data costs! now I get the train home in the evening and the overwhelming majority of people are doing something on a smart device, with a lot of them watching video. obviously difficult to tell if saved locally or streaming. I'd really like to be able to see a GIS map of cell data capacity utilisation as a train moves, I suspect it would like like a black hole moving across the map.

    no doubt people will lap up the hype of 5G. I'm sure it will surpass 4G, but gee there are going to be one hell of a load of microcells, all of which need power and uplinks to maintain.
     
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  6. hippyhippy

    hippyhippy Member

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    The hype with 5g is their goals.. wont be like that straight away.. maybe in the future
     
  7. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    How does it compare to a physically upgrading a street/suburb's cabling?

    I can see Optus/Telstra rolling 5G into suburbs/streets where they have no footprint and the NBN hasn't touched or that won't have the best line speed.

    Optus 5G unlimited plan with a 50mbit minimum is surprisingly well priced @ $79/month.

    99% of users wouldn't understand or care about latency anyway as long as it's below 100ms odd?
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  8. caspian

    caspian Member

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    you are right, other than street cabling runs into a house that is already weatherproof, doesn't need bird or vandal protection, already has convenient power, and has acceptable environmentals for non-hardened equipment etc.

    that would be a pretty short term and limited footprint - the NBN network will be completed by the end of next year. and given long lines are a small annulus around a node, that would be a very specific rollout. maybe the economics works, I don't know. that's why beancounter departments exist. personally I don't see 5G as a replacement for a terrestrial service, it's complementary. obviously the primary focus is on mobility. there would be some people attracted to the idea of using it for short term don't-tie-me-down use, or they could just pick a provider with no contract - 5G will still lock you in to a provider. the other valid point is speed, 5G would definitely crap all over a copper line at peak performance, but the concerns then become both variability in performance during peak period, and data allowance to make use of that speed.

    yeah, let's see how that goes. as soon as you say "unlimited" these days I see this:

    [​IMG]

    I doubt 99% of users understand the concept of latency, how it affects them, or any effect at all really. the primary effect is on applications like voice and gaming. voice is already protected by QoS, and gamers are a small minority that nobody is going to build a network around. those concerns aside, multithreaded TCP long since defeated much of the latency issues for consumer grade use, and even an extra half a second when loading a webpage or channel zapping to a new media stream is effectively undetectable.
     
  9. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

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    QoS can't fix the limitations of 5G as well as congestion.

    Most users notice latency, they just don't know why or that it doesn't have to be that way, and sometimes its not even their internet connection at fault.
     
  10. hippyhippy

    hippyhippy Member

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    I got a 5g phone.. but no 5g signal haha
     
  11. evilasdeath

    evilasdeath Member

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    The understanding of users of latency is
    higher number = bad
    lower number = good

    They cannot quantify the actual difference to them between 40ms and 80ms.

    Of those that do have a good grasp of latency, only a subset of them understand the impact and effects of jitter and packet loss.

    For the great majority of users it either works or doesn't work, and they don't give a squat for what reason.
     
  12. hawpinghaxbag

    hawpinghaxbag Member

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    Current 5g is basically 4g plus a 20mhz 5g carrier piggybacked on with regards to Telstra, going to have to wait until stand-alone 5g and mmwave to get really low latency

    4g only
    [​IMG]

    5g
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
  13. miicah

    miicah Member

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    But you could easily tell the difference between 10ms and 150ms. Which is why people think their phone is "slow" to load google, the actual data is quick but it takes an age to actually respond.
     
  14. aussie-revhead

    aussie-revhead Member

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    So the dude on TV that demonstrated 1.2 gigabit download speed was probably standing right under a tower and had no one else connected .... 4g backbone with 5g add-on seems like a benchmark only exercise, small packets will go 5g so it looks fast and bigger stuff will fall back. Yes dedicated 5g will be much better but it's a start.

    It makes NBN look rather lame doesn't it?

    :)
     
  15. caspian

    caspian Member

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    so does uncongested 4G, if anyone ever got to actually use it.

    the problems that prevent 4G from being enjoyed to full potential are not going to vanish just because the RF network changes to microcells. it changes the problems to a degree, but does replace some existing problems with new ones.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2019
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  16. power

    power Member

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    I did, it was frickin' awesome. I remember using it at Lang Park the 3G was super congested and the 4G was just nuts - so quick, now the 4G is less than optimal for sure.
     
  17. OP
    OP
    Bourke

    Bourke Member

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    https://forums.overclockers.com.au/posts/18129299/

    As CASPIAN says, it's all about congestion, 4G works fine when no one is using it, I was on 4G Dongle when most 3G was for Phones, as Phones moved onto 4G, my Dongle latency turned from insta page refresh to 3sec refresh-page load, and that's using the device in the same network range and using newer laptops every couple of years.

    Above was a story of what happened one day, the short is my 5gbit/1.2gbit turned into a 46gbit/24gbit Home wifi after the network dropped off one day, my guess it was a test/upgrade function test of a tower.
    Although for gaming I didn't feel a difference, so ping prob about the same.
    And I could pull those speeds from deep inside a suburban house with big trees and planes flying over head, so not bad really.

    5G will have more space/room/capacity for the same amount of users, so a better experience right....at a price...:eek::eek::eek:
    Telstra pushes their AIR product which is like a local hotspot from your router to help fill in the network coverage.
     
  18. caspian

    caspian Member

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    what irritates me is that I suspect it is congestion as a business decision. that's what the ACCC should be looking into, and not allowing the industry to hide behind best-effort terms. it's not acceptable for service performance to collapse during peak period or deteriorate over time while the industry charges full rate pricing.
     
  19. patto

    patto Member

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    :lol:

    Yeah while we are at it maybe somebody should get the ACCC to look into our road network. Congestion at peak periods is unacceptable!
     
  20. caspian

    caspian Member

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    I sense sarcasm, but actually I quite agree. why do people have to pay a premium price for a toll road when it doesn't offer a premium experience?
     

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