64bit games?

Discussion in 'Programming & Software Development' started by Mensuri, Oct 16, 2006.

  1. Mensuri

    Mensuri Member

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    sorry is this is the wrong forum guys/girls.

    the question i have is - are 64bit games harder to program - i know having games programmed to make full use of dual cores is a very difficult, but is writing the games in 64 bit as opposed to 32 much more difficult.

    the reason i ask is that for the newer games coming out - Rome II and later, most require sufficiently powerfull cpus to run them, and these are already 64bit capable, ie Athlon XP with no SSE2 - no good, much older pentiums etc.

    And if thats the case - why aren't game programmers making use of what i thought would be a free speed increase by programming in 64bit code - make the games run better on lower spec'd pcs = greater customer base.

    Or do you need to run a 64bit OS to run a 64 bit game?

    As you can tell i have NO knowledge in this area at all - i was just curious.
     
  2. infiltraitor

    infiltraitor Member

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    its possible that they are just waiting for an indication that a larger portion of the market has 64bit capable computers.

    rather than alienating a portion of the market they are just staying with 32bit for the time being.
     
  3. foxmulder881

    foxmulder881 Member

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    I don't think we'll see 64bit games for at least 5 years.
     
  4. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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    Yes you do.
    Errrrm, no way it will be five years. Will be much sooner than that. Some games have already been released in 64bit format.
     
  5. foxmulder881

    foxmulder881 Member

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    I don't think we'll see many of them for that long MR CHILLED.

    Everybody thought that 64bit CPUs would be overtaking by now. But look at the slow uptake of them. Me personally, the sooner we see them the better. However, I just can't see it happening just yet. I like the whole 64bit world. That's why I use Ubuntu 64bit. No point hanging around waiting for Microsoft to play the catchup game.

    What games have been released as 64bit? Haven't seen any.
     
  6. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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    Are you serious!!???? They are all over the place now.....64bit chips are what most buy these days.
    Shadow Ops: Red Mercury was one.....there are others but there aren't that many currently.

    Other articles of interest:

    http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ComputingSolutions/0,,30_288_11054,00.html
    http://www.amd.com/us-en/Weblets/0,,7832_8366_7595~97841,00.html
     
  7. foxmulder881

    foxmulder881 Member

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    Us enthusiasts here on the forums would all have 64bit CPUs because we upgrade so often and we're geeks. It's what we do, upgrade unnecessarily. I do it myself. But your average John Doe machine or Grandma's machine would no doubt only have a 32bit CPU. Why? Because they do what most people have them for. Therefore they don't need to upgrade. That's where the statistics are. Sure all CPUs on the market now are 64bit, but look how many years it's taken. 64bit technology certainly ain't new, that's for sure. But I know that you know that already, don't you MR CHILLED?
     
  8. xsive

    xsive Member

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    What's the point? I mean, it's not like games are going to be any faster just because the underlying architecture uses 64bit instead of 32. Any performance difference will come from architectural improvements to the core not the amount of addressable memory.

    EDIT: provided the amount of addressable memory isn't a bottleneck (which I don't regard 4GB as being).
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2006
  9. BAC :S

    BAC :S Member

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    I don't know how possible this, but they could try and do some funky stuff like sending pairs of 32bit ints/floats down the pipline together, or if the same operation is done a lot of times but with different values pack 2 into the op register and try it to do the calculation with both the values in one operation?
     
  10. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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    That's all there will be to buy soon.
    There will be benefits, but not intially.
     
  11. foxmulder881

    foxmulder881 Member

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    Good, out with the old and in with the new.
     
  12. Pacifist

    Pacifist Member

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    As said yes for x86-64 CPUs.
    On the x86-64 implementations the CPU has types of modes it can run in - protected mode, real mode or 64bit mode.
    If the OS initialises the CPU in a certain mode at the start then applications can't use operations made for other modes. 32bit windows intialises the CPU in protected mode so 64bit operations arn't allowed.


    The switch to make games 64bit is actually a hassle. Apart from the issue of coders wrongly assuming the size of basic data types and such there is the more annoying issue of libraries not supporting 64bit. Libraries are pre compiled peices of code you can link in to your current code to help with certain tasks. Typical libraries for games include 3D libraries, audio libraries, networking libraries and input libraries.
    So if you used non-open source libraries such as directx you can't just set a flag in your compiler to make a 64bit version. You have to find 64bit version of those libraries.

    btw if anyone finds a 64bit version of the directX sdk let me know :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2006
  13. xsive

    xsive Member

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    64bit computing has been around in RISC chips since the early 90s. It's not a big deal outside the scientific computing arena and there's almost no point to it on the desktop for this or the next generation of operating systems. So I'm not at all surprised that there isn't a big push towards 64bit. It's just a gimmick for most people.
     
  14. Oblong Cheese

    Oblong Cheese Member

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    No way! 64-bit is DOUBLE the size of 32-bit! That means you can process DOUBLE the information! 64-bit CPU's are automatically TWICE AS FAST as their 32-bit counter-parts!

    Sheesh! Don't you people know anything about computers? Me and my mate who works at Harvey Norman (he's a real computer expert) are having a good old laugh at you guys.

























    :D
     
  15. mr_wrxman

    mr_wrxman Member

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    ^^ lol :lol:

    good one,

    If you're wondering, Far Cry has a 64 bit patch for it, (big download, about 700MB), when I used it, I didn't see much of an increase in performance.
     
  16. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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    I'm aware it's been around for a while, gimmick or not, that is where we are heading.
     
  17. OP
    OP
    Mensuri

    Mensuri Member

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    Oh, i thought that Windows 64 provided a significant performance increase over the regular 32 bit version.

    With most new games coming out requiring SSE2 etc (ie Rome II) and greater performance, the only CPU's capable of running the games (yes i know the VC is more important) are CPU's that are 64 bit capable anyway.

    Thanks for the info everyone
     
  18. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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    Nahhhhh, not at this point anyways.
     
  19. BlastM

    BlastM Member

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    Back in 2002, Epic began demoing a 64-bit version of UT2003 running on the 64-bit version of SUSE Linux.

    Since then, UT2003 and UT2004 have been released as 64-bit versions for your favourite 64-bit Linux.

    Source code releases of games (e.g. Quake III, etc) have lead to 64-bit ports of games to 64-bit Linux as well.
     
  20. nexx

    nexx Member

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    According to this there is also...

    Half-Life 2
    Lost Coast
    Bet On Soldier: Blood Sport
    Codename: Panzers (Phase one)
    Colin McRae Rally 2005
    Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay
    Far Cry
    Fahrenheit
    Shadow Ops: Red Mercury
    Unreal Tournament 2004
    World of Warcraft
    WWII Tank Commander
    S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl
    Dreadnought
     

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