80+ Silver Power Supply Units set to be the new normal.

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Hardware' started by OJR, Apr 23, 2013.

  1. SenorGrande

    SenorGrande Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2007
    Messages:
    6,825
    Old tech does get banned. History is littered with examples. The most prominent in my mind is leaded motor vehicle fuel - it was banned for health concerns which in turn forced vehicle makers to use engines that did not need tetraethyl lead added to the fuel. Long term this has been better for everyone. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and this instance it would seem that they wanted PSUs with greater than 85% efficiency at all levels of load, which is what an 80+ Silver PSU would achieve easily (whereas a bronze would typically not achieve this across the load range).

    I am confused as to why people are so concerned with this. Do you not want efficient technology?? Energy usage is a big problem in modern society and it would make sense that rather than tax people that you encourage/legislate the usage of EFFICIENT devices instead.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  2. stenchlord

    stenchlord Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    5,600
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW
    I'd say for the majority of people it's most likely due to the extra cost they believe is likely to be incurred when making their initial purchase.

    As I pointed out though there will be alternatives at a similar price point which do hold to the new standard.

    I still don't agree with your viewpoint though that cheap power supplies are never good. As I've shown you can get solid reliability at budget prices, does this make them super efficient PSUs? No, but will they safely power the systems they're installed in? Yes.

    As for Bronze rated PSUs, I personally have no issue with them. The people I've built gaming rigs for tend to have their PC on for a couple hours everyday sometimes every other day just to play a game (10-20hrs a week) and then use their laptops/tablets/phones for browsing and emails.. The difference in efficiency there means nothing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  3. SenorGrande

    SenorGrande Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2007
    Messages:
    6,825
    The problem there is that they're not accurately assessing the total cost,to not only their wallet but society in general...

    Exactly. I'm not exactly a fan of the free market lunatic ideal but the market in this instance will rise to the challenge...

    I guess I am going to have to disagree with you on this one... I've owned Bronze PSUs but they weren't budget... In fact every PC in my house now runs high end Seasonics, but in the past I had bronze seasonics. They weren't all that expensive and if spending $100 versus $50 on a PSU breaks the budget then perhaps the buyer cannot afford to be buying a PC at that time?

    I'm not suggesting that bronze PSUs are necessarily bad, and I don't think the government is either but virtually all cheap PSUs (which by virtue fall either up to or below the bronze standard) are poor quality.

    The government has merely selected a cut-off and stuck to it. Why people are acting as if the government has started sleeping with their wife is a bit strange to me...
     
  4. 3stars

    3stars Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,463
    Some ones gotta pay for the minimum wage:lol:
     
  5. mr_mordred2095

    mr_mordred2095 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Messages:
    3,904
    Location:
    Brisbane
    At my shop, if you come in with a PC that needs a PSU replaced, you'd be charged $45 for a generic PSU and $22 for fitting, so a total of $67.

    Me having to pay $48 for a PSU means I'll be onselling it for about $79 (welcome to retail), and then another $22 for fitting.

    Suddenly a $67 replacement turns into a $101 replacement. Of course the average consumer won't be impressed.

    95% of machines that come into the shop have dual core and onboard everything, so obviously a hefty PSU isn't necessary, and they would comfortably run off sub-200watt PSUs, so even shitty mislabeled 300w units branded as 500w do the job just fine.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  6. stenchlord

    stenchlord Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Messages:
    5,600
    Location:
    Sydney, NSW
    Definitely agree that in the long run it saves the buyer money but consumers for the most part don't think like that.

    I think it will too, it's just a matter of retailers and how much they think they can con the average joe out of his hard earned money using this as an excuse.

    I'm not saying all bronze grade PSUs are good but that there are definitely gems among them.

    As for the spending on a PSU, people sometimes have budgets that they need to stick to. If a $50 PSU can reliably power their system, that just means $50 can go towards cooling for their system or a larger SSD or more memory.

    You're kinda contradicting yourself there lol but I think understand what you're saying, I just don't entirely agree with you.

    I personally just feel this is a case of them being too conservative. For the sake of 4% when components are becoming more and more efficient (CPUs and GPUs using less and less power) seems overkill.
     
  7. Carcin0Genic

    Carcin0Genic Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,586
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast
    So does anyone have any other info about this?
    From the "fact sheet", (which states the incorrect date)
    I would like to know what the definitions of these are, but from what I can see the standards AS/NZS 5813.2, are not free to view. Or its just too late and I need to sleep. Can someone help here?
     
  8. pentel88

    pentel88 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    177
    Location:
    Melbourne
    If they are banning the sale, but not the import of the cheap psu's, and the legislation doesn't cover 'workstations' does that mean computer stores could still sell a shaw 500w in a prebuilt 'workstation' pc?
     
  9. c_hegge

    c_hegge Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2012
    Messages:
    492
    Location:
    NSW
    Interesting. Brand name PSUs are usually much better built than cheap $20 ones. I rarely see them fail. The only problem they occasionally have is the glue turning conductive, and sometimes bad caps.

    Try $67 for the PSU (the In Win) and $50 to install. Total of $117. That's our standard rate for replacing a PSU and guess what? Never have I had a customer winge about it. They'd much rather pay $30 extra than have a bomb in the back of their computer.

    You can get those In Win Power Men on Ingram Micro for <$40 IIRC.

    The other problem with the cheapies is that, even if they can do 200W OK, they usually sound like Jet engines and the fans quit after 2-3 years, then the PSU blows up and kills the machine, as they lack any form of Over Temp Protection.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  10. OP
    OP
    OJR

    OJR Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    5,069
    Location:
    Melbourne
    The issue was not limited to the D530 SFF the DC7100 and 7600 SFF models that came after it had the same issues. We're getting rid of all ours but they are still failing daily.
     
  11. Kurosaki

    Kurosaki Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,852
    Location:
    Australia
    From my understanding this is largely targets at the Dells and HPs of the world. Note in the MEPS docs it specifically states "models". I think the biggest thing is how it effects the DIY market or your local computer retails shops where machines are custom built and not necessarily of one specific model.

    From my dealings with Disty and Retailers is everyone is a bit WTF. Forget for a moment how will enforcement will be handled? No one has any guidance from the government on custom built/DIY PCs or retail parts. This whole MEPS things although with good intention has been a complete train wreck.
     
  12. c_hegge

    c_hegge Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2012
    Messages:
    492
    Location:
    NSW
    The problem with those HP SFF PSUs was caused by conductive glue. If you open the PSU and get all of the glue out, they will last years.
     
  13. OP
    OP
    OJR

    OJR Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2013
    Messages:
    5,069
    Location:
    Melbourne
    It was also the way the hinge worked on then PSU, continually opening the lid and then lifting the PSU would cause the wires to come apart from the PCB solder. It was just a fail all round.
     
  14. Garido

    Garido Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    5,247
    Location:
    Parramatta, NSW
    The ACERs I have use a Delta PSU which is top notch. Delta OEM PSUs can be quite good, just make sure you buy the right model. Also, don't see how ACER is shit. mine are fantastic. try again.
     
  15. Davo1111

    Davo1111 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    3,018
    Location:
    Sydney
    i don't see the problem with bronze. Otherwise fine..

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Gonadman2

    Gonadman2 Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,246
    Location:
    Perth
    Why are people saying that PSU prices are going to go up? The average price across the PSU market in Australia will increase, but I see no reason for the price of PSU's to increase. The market demand for PSU's will still be there, only that people will be purchasing better quality PSU's which most probably have a higher margin. If anything PSU prices may actually come down due to wholesalers shifting more 'mid range' units to fill the budget PSU hole.
     
  17. Lawagetas

    Lawagetas Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    I think there might be some misinterpretation - either on my part or everyone jumping the gun.

    But the fact sheet specifies that computers will be forced to this standard.
    It also has a list of exclusions for these computers and talks about models with a import volume of less than 200 units will not need to comply.

    Source:
    In all these examples it talks about COMPUTERS sold.
    This to me means that ENTIRE SYSTEMS SOLD must comply to these standards.

    What this *should* mean is that all home built computers should NOT need to comply to these standards (after all, technically all home built PCs are unique models).
    This means computer stores that sell components will not need to change.

    The only difference we will see is that Dells/HPs/Macs will all have to use higher quality PSUs. And judging from the rest of the complaints in this thread, that makes a considerable amount of sense.

    In fact, given how low volume the computers sold by a computer store are (example: PCCG, UMart), those prebuilt systems won't be affected either.

    Edit:
    This is another give away.
    Now if they said "all Computer Power Supplies manufactured in or imported..." that would be cause for concern. But the term used is just computers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  18. karlcloudy

    karlcloudy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,690
    Location:
    Launceston, Tasmania
    Doesn't this say that the PSU must comply with 80plus silver if the quantity is less than (or equal to) 200 units. From this, I presume that maybe it's an Australian Standard that they must follow, not the ecos 80plus silver certification (unless <= 200 units)?

    I also do not see any mention of standalone PSUs in there... and that makes sense. After all, most people buy whole computer systems, not individual parts. Almost sounds like they want to bring in "star ratings" for PCs to me (not that it says that anywhere, but they are the same people who do the Energy Ratings we see on appliances).
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2013
  19. Lawagetas

    Lawagetas Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    Messages:
    23
    You're right. I actually got that bit of information from the PCauthority article, and skimmed over that bit.
    This further reinforces that there's been some misinterpretation here by PCauthority - whose article most people read without checking the fact sheet. Unless there's some hidden cache of information that they have not referenced.

    Kinda makes you realise the power news media has.
    But back on topic: I don't think there's actually any exception if the quantity is less than 200 units. Perhaps this does mean that Computer Store built PCs must also sport 80+ silver PSUs. I'm not sure how popular prebuilts from a computer store are, though (Acer, Asus etc aside). But it should not affect the enthusiast or basic DIYer.
     
  20. karlcloudy

    karlcloudy Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,690
    Location:
    Launceston, Tasmania
    Yeah, it looks as though they have to use 80plus silver for prebuilt PCs (since it's obviously not worth worrying about the smaller builders as it would be costly to test), while bigger manufacturers like Dell will have to use PSUs compliant to some sort of energy efficiency Australian standard.

    As for DIYers... well nothing in the fact sheet mentions sale of standalone PSUs, so I can't see this stopping the sale of lower efficiency and unsafe SHAWlike PSUs (surely the latter would already be considered illegal by some safety bureau in Australia, but isn't enforced!?).
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: