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a dead 3d printer i found on gumtree. Rebrain buildlog

Discussion in 'Hobby Engineering' started by datfreak, Jan 24, 2020.

  1. datfreak

    datfreak Member

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    I impulse bought a dead Cr-10 mini on gumtree for $50.
    P1020919 (Medium 3.jpg


    So..on first impression I need a new controller and new psu to get this to live again.

    I was hoping it still had the dead controller but the PO said the controller had caught on fire and he has since binned it.
    New mainboards are cheapish at $60 on ebay/aliexpress,
    And maybe a pc psu for the 12v, but would need a case to prevent it looking to getto-ish.
    And a screen if I cant control it solely by usb.

    Or maybe a 3rd party controller can be make to work?


    These are the cables plugs I need to convert into something I can plug into the new mainboard.
    P1020920 (Medium).JPG

    I'm new to the 3d print world, so if you have any ideas to get this working again (or a dead cr-10 controller I can buy) please share your thoughts
     
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  2. m3k

    m3k Member

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    you could go and get a crap controller - i think its the melzi OR you could watch a few of teaching tech's you tube videos a fellow kangaroo teacher, And he will show you how to setup a Skr 1.3 or something similar to get it running quieter and more reliably than ever before :)

    with Thermal runaway protection, And you should also invest in an external mosfet to bypass even the SKR 1.3 (which actually has a pretty good mosfet), I would also suggest maybe lowering the power output on heat-bed from full 255 to something a bit more kind on the mosfet and wires- like 200 - but this will make heating the bed very slow- but you'll cover all that stuff when you go through setting up the firmware on marlin

    I mean- YOU could just go buy a cheap control board- but you'll be stuck with a very feature limited 3d printer. and changing firmware settings will be annoying, and without a large external mosfet itl likely catch fire again- because powering such a large heat-bed isnt trivial-

    this is what happens when manufacturers race to the bottom $ - they cut corners.

    also with new marlin- and a powerful board, u can enable exciting new features- such as backlash compensation,linear advance, s-curve acceleration- junction deviation- and quiet tmc support- which will not only allow your printer to be less annoying to live with ( loudness) but also print much better than ever before assuming you set it up correctly.

    also those are just normal aviator connectors- probably worth chopping that off and soldering and crimping the correct ends to input onto the board

    also be sure to crimp correct ferrules before terminating them into a board or you can risk fire once again...

    i mean similar things apply for not just 3d printers- powerful home audio, car power cable crimping, etc etc so before people are like ohh nooo 3d printers are dangerous- nah fam all high current electricity can be dangerous.

    also i still think 3d printers could use more redudancy when it comes to power management, i think double error checking thermistors- and some sort of emergency relay switches incase of mosfet failure stuff like that should be more commonplace and not on super custom printers. *but i digress

    also some upgrades i suggest doing asap is an allmetal hotend- The PTFE tube cannot print most PLAs at the correct tempriture before degrading- and if u have pet birds it can actually harm their health.

    i missed alot of things- but be sure to watch alot of videos by thomas salallalalmander and teaching tech and you should understand it all. you've got alot of learning to do if you want to make this printer any good.

    if your goal is to simply reinstall the old hardware and flip it- i mean. you could but i would not like that on my conscience considering i would not sell the original printer running the way it was because it was legitimately a hazard and even if not it would be giving somebody a headache considering more modern printers for similar prices are far more reliable and safe

    also ironically this would be aot easier if you had another 3d printer to print enclosures and mounts for the powersuply and main boards. so there is that..
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  3. OP
    OP
    datfreak

    datfreak Member

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    thanks M3k, you gave a lot of info that is very helpful, I'll watch the videos from the people you mentioned.

    I'll look into the external mosfet to run the bed as I dont want to see it go up in flames again.

    Yes the board I linked above does look crappy, now Ive done more reading, the bigtreetech SKR v1.3 with tmc2209 drivers (and a screen!)looks good, although firmware and setup looks to be a big learning curve for me but that could be a enjoyable challenge.

    Looks like with some of the new stepper drivers ie tmc2209 that don't need end stop switches and use sensorless homing - it is surprising how good configuration of newer boards can make even modern systems redundant.

    My shopping list atm with be:
    Bigtree board(linked above) and screen
    Case for psu and board (steel would be nice over plastic)
    New servo to board cables
    External mosfet to run the hotbed.
    PC PSU (500w enough?)


    Would be nice to get it alive and then look at future upgrades like the all metal hotend and some kind of auto leveller.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  4. OP
    OP
    datfreak

    datfreak Member

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    I'm missing the cables for the stepper motors, end stop switches, temp of hotend, temp of hotbed, head fan 1 and headfan 2.
    On the board the motors seems to be 4pin jst, and all the rest 2 pin jst connectors.

    Its confusing what cable types but I think I need:
    motors, 6pin to 4pin jst ,4 wire X 4
    endstop 3pin to 2 pin jst, 2 wire X 3 (not sure which pins to use on the 3 pin side)
    fan and temp headers 2pin jst x 4

    The big power connections are screw terminal and as m3k suggested ill prob cut off the aviator plugs. Then solder extensions into the new box.

    Are Dupoint connectors like this compatible with the btt board?

    I'm wanting to buy the cables premade on ebay, but most of the suppliers are in china and I dont want to wait that long. So I may look at buying connectors and having a go at crimping them myself.
     
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  5. m3k

    m3k Member

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    ebay sell the 6 pin jst to 4 pin dupont for nema 17 stepper motors at 1meter run for 10 bux for 5 sets ( australian stock)

    Yes dupont should plug into the BTT board fine- infact they're sort of prefereed as you can reverse the polarity and change the motor direciton- You should use a dab of hot glue to make sure they're nice a snug on both ends :)

    Obviously not on the conductive parts- but the plastic outer parts to ensure it doesnt wiggle free- considering printers do vibrate and stuff
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
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  6. qwertylesh

    qwertylesh Member

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    Awesome, looking forward to seeing if you resurrect it
     
    datfreak likes this.
  7. tumutbound

    tumutbound Member

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    I upgraded my Ender 5, 6 months ago with an MKS Gen L boards, 4.3" touch screen and TMC2209 drivers. Minor wiring changes necessary (I had all the dupont and JST crimps on hand). Running Marlin 2.0.
    If I was doing it now I'd probably go for one of the 32bit Bigtreetech boards.
     
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  8. SLATYE

    SLATYE SLATYE, not SLAYTE

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    I went to a BTT SKR E3 DIP on my CR-10, with TMC2208 drivers (the TMC2209 apparently had some issues on 12V? Not sure if they've been resolved). It's been great so far, apart from some minor firmware issues (my fault ... I was editing the example config file rather than the one that was actually getting compiled). Total cost was under $40AU from eBay (new, but shipped from China).If I was building a new control box (as you are) then I'd look at the BTT SKR Pro instead; the main reason I didn't get that is that it wouldn't line up with any of the mounting points in the CR-10 control box.
     
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  9. m3k

    m3k Member

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    skr pro has the screw terminals but itl be hard to get one as there is a worldwide shortage at this moment- but those screw terminals will mean you wont need to crimp ferrules to stop fires :p
     
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  10. OP
    OP
    datfreak

    datfreak Member

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    Thanks Slatye its good to hear of another cr-10 conversion. Ill check if the 12v are still a problem with the 2209 drivers.

    I'm heading towards using a 1.3 (the 1.4 board does have a extra z output but hasnt got as much info online) and buying 2 x 30amp mosfets , one for the bed and the other for the hotend. That way there will be big screw terminals for all the high current work and the board itself will only have to drive itself and the motors.
    That will make the case more challanging but will suss that later.
     
  11. m3k

    m3k Member

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    hot end wont need a separate mosfet! its 5w or so very overkil

    if u sketch up the case on pen and paper i can make it and print it in CAD for you
    or laser engrave an acrylic case-
    i would lean towards a PETG case because its a bit more fire retardant.

    aim towards making a machine u can leave unattended (nnever recommended) but have peace of mind ull only get a charred board not a charred house!
    :)

    its not recommended but i am driving a 30x30 heatbed with my Skr 1.3 on my zortrax m300 and the mosfet on my thermal imaging cameras seem quite healthy! at a chilly 30c without active cooling! i even put a heatsink on it just incase

    JUST FYI i have 2 printers running duet wifi- and while its great, i prefer marlins features sofar. but i prefer duet's hardware forsure, im e-friends with a couple marlin developers and they have converted me back to marlin :p .. there might even be some porting of firmware ahem :O mayyybee
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
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  12. OP
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    datfreak

    datfreak Member

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    re: designing the case - thats so good of you. I'll get all the bits and see it alive (even if its just wires and components mess over the bench) than plan the case then - I'll let you know if I can take you up on that kind offer.
    Totally agree about having a machine I can trust not having a melt down.
    I ordered 2 mosfets, just to be ott. Just noticed the shipping times - I hope it will be faster then that!
    Now to organise the cables.
    order.JPG
     
  13. m3k

    m3k Member

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    IMO Skip on the Tft24 touch screen and just get a generic LCD screen (12864 Panel LCD Controller ) with encoder and SDcard, and the 2208 is perfectly fine. and far cheaper than 2209.

    you can save a fair chunk of money that way. perhaps put it towards a BL touch

    2208 should be good enough but 2209 is better, along as you can get the UART working- you might need to do research which brand of 2208 or 2209 chips to use for the least hassle tog et UART working- Some chips you will need to do some soldering on the actual step sticks. and it can be a little difficult if you're new to soldering.

    Connecting UART is very good because you can control the motor current and stepping mode via the LCD and firmware. which is way less ghetto than turning the potenteometers- especially for getting your motors to stay strong and cool.

    There is alot of sources online for 3d printing, a reddit, lots of message boards, irc channels, discord channels etc dont be afraid to look for them and ask- the 3d printing community is large and full of very intelligent people - often established professionals because 3d printing is a very creative hobby not a mindless destructive one. so you will find a very good community IMO

    i can also recommend geting a Rpi 3b+ and getting octoprint- its a great tool but not necessary.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
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  14. ShadowBurger

    ShadowBurger Member

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    just a heads up, you can get drop-in 32bit upgrade boards for these printers that replace the stock one. no need to set up firmware or anything just plug in and go and at something silly like 100x the stepper resolution of the 8 bit boards. about $70
     
  15. OP
    OP
    datfreak

    datfreak Member

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    Dont tell me that ive already ordered the skr 1.3 board with 2209 drivers.
    The board doesnt need to fit in the original box as its gone and ill have to make one. Plus i needed a screen.

    I think i have the cables sorted also.. i found a cr-10 extension cable kit on aliexpress that uses the standard plugs on the printer side a(inc the aviation big plugs). I will still have to replug the cables on the board side but looking good so far.

    Now i just have to wait for parts to arrive from china
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  16. m3k

    m3k Member

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    its not like the resell value for the skr 1.3 is bad as-long as u didn't unbox it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  17. OP
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    datfreak

    datfreak Member

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    Thanks for trying to save me $ but I'm happy with the 1.3/2209/touchscreen what I've ordered. I like the idea of a custom programmable setup - which I'm sure will give me lots of headaches on setup but that will be part of the experience.
    Bl touch or even a inductive type one would be handy, i will look into upgrades when I get it going.

    I'am finding alot of great info from youtubers which is great but daunting atm to understand.
     
  18. m3k

    m3k Member

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    if you're stuck just ask stupid questions here or find a community to ask- and or google google google id watch every single thomas salslalslsalsallasmanders videos start to finish he goes through the basics very well- and while technology has changed a bit since- its good to go over the old stuff-
     
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  19. SLATYE

    SLATYE SLATYE, not SLAYTE

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    I'll be interested to see how you go with the bed levelling. There seem to be a bunch of options, each with its limitations:

    - Optical - non-contact and no moving parts, but may get confused by the glass bed and/or ambient light. There's an Australian one here.
    - Inductive - non-contact and no moving parts, but again may get confused by the glass bed (or any non-metallic bed. Not sure how the flexible magnetic beds would go).
    - BL-Touch - seems like a sensible solution for all beds, although it requires mechanical parts.
    - TMC2209 StallGuard - essentially drives the hot-end into the bed and uses motor torque to find out when it's hit. I can't say I like this idea, and it seems like old plastic hanging off the extruder might confuse it.

    So far the BL Touch seems like the most consistent approach.
     
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  20. m3k

    m3k Member

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    tmc stallgaurd has alot of issues with ABL primarily dual drive Z- Backlash in Znuts which are quite considerable- and most importantly its never been overly accurate as i think it only detects a full step stall not microstep stalls. it might do the job for X and Y but for mesh bed leveling it can be super dodgy

    even on a single lead screw- on the far end of the X axis it will have far more play than at the closer end- and that will cause an incorrect mesh

    bl-touch is probably the best option because humidity and all that doesn't effect it- there's also another option Capasitive sensor- Ive experimented with all And capasitve seems to literally be thrown off by entire MM varying day to day- So for ease of use- causative id rather just print with a raft and not ABL

    also thats just another option- Make ur first layer height thick. IF u can.... also home while microstepping is set to full micro steps ( it would be loud and jerky) and then on the fly set the micro-steps back to 16x interpolation or whatever you prefer, by doing this you could also get rid of rounding errors on Z - ive done this successfully on duet hardware but not marlin as if yet. as i dont think there are g-codes to live adjust microsteps(tho i haven't looked admittedly) and i probably wont considering the life improvements ABL and spring steel sheets bring to the table- Its just such a hit print and walk away solution. and with 0.9 degree steppers positional accuracy is so high your layers will be very consistent so there's that.

    nice uniform layers arnt just good for the aesthetic of a print- It tremendously increases uniform structural integrity- thats why i place such an importance on it when i print jobs for people even here on forums- lots of these parts actually hold things of value and i dont want that interlayer bonding peel because of a slightly mis-aligned outerwall or somthing

    there are also alot more fun stuff for auto bed leveling

    diy Servo with microswitch and FSR weight sensing either on the hotend or the heatbed, but as mentioned before the FSR will give you inconsistent readings with filament on the nozzle- so preheat before doing that. fsr is popular with delta printers ^^.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
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