Acquiring ADSL2+ in a Multi Dwelling Unit

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by JebusJones, Jul 3, 2008.

  1. JebusJones

    JebusJones Member

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    So just moved into a 2nd floor apartment in Brunswick, Melbourne. I figured it was a good time to finally get this new fandangled ADSL2+ so applied for a Naked DSL plan through Internode - naked as we never use a home phone and so don't want to pay line rental.

    The guy on the phone at Internode said that they couldn't connect in an MDU unless it had already been proven to work - something about their work guys and cabling and a Main Distribution Frame.

    He said if I apply for a new phone number through Telstra, once I am connected with just a normal phone line, I can then re-apply for the Naked ADSL2+ and it would work and also cancel the Telstra account.

    This all sounds kinda weird to me as he said once the phone number is connected they won't need to do any extra cabling or anything (which I thought was the whole point of ADSL) but what kind of cabling would they have needed to do to hook up a Naked ADSL2+ account to a line with no phone number on it?

    So I just wanted to check with you guys that this should work before I go through shenanigans with Telstra.
     
  2. power

    power Member

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    they can test for adsl2+ once you have a number. Jump through whatever hoops you need to, ADSL2+ rocks :)
     
  3. OP
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    JebusJones

    JebusJones Member

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    Ah so even though he said it would work, it still may not... Apparently the exchange is quite close and there are spare ports in it, I guess it means there may just be issues if the building's phone line setup messes with the signal or something.
     
  4. SSJX

    SSJX Member

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    I use to live in a block of apartments in Adelaide CBD, and had ADSL2+ running fine

    I didn't have naked dsl though
     
  5. Pugs

    Pugs Member

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    maybe their techs don't like working on mdfs.. i can vouch for that...... i hate the things....

    the internal lines shouldn't be toophased with the setu, maybe they are just lazy, maybe the last people there had anaked line that no one can find....
     
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    JebusJones

    JebusJones Member

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    Well I applied for a phone connection through Telstra (and HAD to choose a phone plan, of course) then applied for Naked ADSL2+ with IINET (whose plans got better than Internode since the stuff up - schweet.

    IINET tested and said everything is hunky dory. So I'm expecting it to be ready in the next 10 to 20 days (although they can't promise that due to demand) so we shall just have to wait and see.
     
  7. power

    power Member

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    that's awesome
     
  8. SpudBoy

    SpudBoy Member

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    keep this in mind.

    (as it happened to me)

    you need a phone number to test for a dsl connection - granted

    but what they often dont say, is that you need an OPTUS number (which takes 10-20 days to connect) as most isp's run via optus' network.

    take excetel for example.. they run off optus. - i am moving house next week. and i attempted to get a new connection. i ring telstra, they have plenty of spare ports on the exchange.

    ok..

    i open a phone number account.

    arrange for isp to set up dsl.

    DENIED..

    wtf?

    another isp... DENIED... ?????

    seems telstra dont like others using their phone lines..

    i kill the telstra account ($79 down the toilet)

    and apply to have my current optus account moved there..

    SUCCESS


    OMFG what the hell?

    note to DSL connections. find out what network / DSLAMS your isp uses before you make any connections.
     
  9. OP
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    JebusJones

    JebusJones Member

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    Hmmm, had a quick browse on IINET page and couldn't find anything about it there, guess I'll just find out sometime over the next week or so.
     
  10. SpudBoy

    SpudBoy Member

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    as much as i hate mentioning it.

    whingepool is a good resource for find out what isp uses what dslam.
     
  11. ltd73

    ltd73 Member

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    the "short" answer is that MDUs pose all sorts of challenges as its quiite often difficult if not impossible for (insert_ISPs_name_here) to gain access to the MDU to connect you. not only that, the "cable records" are quite often incorrect, so it may well be that there simply isn't even the copper there. (read: RIM/Pairgain services).

    for traditional ADSL1 and/or services which use Telstra DSLAMs its generally not a problem, as you can order a phone service with Telstra then the copper is magically there.

    however, if there isn't an existing service yet & you are looking to perhaps go Naked DSL, ISPs like Internode seem to mandate that you need a working phone service first - as that means they can then 'check' the copper using Telstra wholesale systems to see if it is compatible.

    i don't believe iiNet have such a requirement however many of the horror stories of Naked DSL provisioning crop up from MDUs because of the above causes. As such, its most definitely *easier* if you already had a POTS/PSTN service with Telstra to start with.

    It costs the ISP money every time they need to send a contractor out to try to fix these things (Visionstream is commonly the contractor), not to mention quite often involves multiple parties such as yourself & Telstra too, so you can most definitely see their reluctance to do it unless they have a high degree of confidence that it'll work.


    that's the "short" answer. there are plenty of other reasons too (the "longer" version), that i won't go into here.

    having said all of this and being a Naked DSL user myself, i can HIGHLY RECOMMEND it, however make sure you really do understand the lack of a Service Guarantee & understand what that means.

    personally i'm fine using a Mobile if my NDSL failed in some reason, but to date, it hasn't and i've enjoyed large $$$ savings from not having to fork out money to Telstra for a phone service & free local/STD & much cheaper mobile/IDD calls.

    cheers.
     
  12. OP
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    JebusJones

    JebusJones Member

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    I checked Whirlpool and they said my exchange (Brunswick, MEL) has an iiNet DSLAM... So fingers crossed.

    Thanks for the info ltd73 - I'm basically in the hands of the powers that be in this case, when we moved into the apartment it didn't even twig with me that this would be an issue. We were in a hurry to move so I didn't bother researching, just cancelled the old AAPT ADSL account and then started looking at ADSL2+ once we were settled in.

    To be honest I'm not too fussed if I have to go back to 1500 ADSL as I can set it to download stuff during the day or even grab it at work (where I mostly do so now). The faster connection of Naked DSL will be nice but isn't essential.

    So the main thing was pretty much to get rid of the phone line rental and required phone plan - with AAPT our bills were $145 between 3 of us, if this works it'll be $80 between 2 - not much difference but we won't be paying for something only the third housemate ever used anyway.
     
  13. ltd73

    ltd73 Member

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    for us, we found that we were paying around $100-$150/month to Telstra on phone calls + rental combined, then another $70/month on Internet -- or -- $170 to $220/month combined.

    with iinet Naked Home 5, i'm not only getting ~15x faster internet & larger quota, but i'm paying $89.95 + misc call costs - currently averaging around $6/month in calls to Mobiles/International.

    i.e. a net saving of $75-125 PER MONTH in savings with faster internet with more quota than i used to have.

    i.e. win win.
     
  14. Auriga

    Auriga Member

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    Naked DSL is ULL service, so the network boundary is always the MDF. If you dont have an active service or a disconnected service working to the socket in the unit then you'll have some hiccups.

    A PSTN service has the same network boundary point but as it's a residental PSTN service Telstra has to connect it to the first socket on a install.

    It does not do this for ULLs. It get tagged at the MDF and then your ISP or you has to arrange for it to be wired past the MDF using the internal wirring.

    It's the same if the internal wiring past the MDF goes faulty, it's not part of the Telstra network, so it does not fix it. Yes for older buildings Telstra may have originaly installed it but it's no longer it's responsibilty.
     
  15. Wilf

    Wilf (Banned or Deleted)

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    Garbage, most ISP's use Telstra's network, not Optus's.

    What was the exact reason for the denial? Which ISP?

    What was the exact reason for the denial? Which ISP?

    Garbage, all ISP's use a Telstra LSS service
     
  16. OP
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    JebusJones

    JebusJones Member

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    Well the iiNet technician checked the lines on Wednesday and gave the thumbs up - though I'm a bit wary that he didn't need to come into the apartment...

    So the approval has gone ahead and I'm expecting the equipment early next week. Kinda sucks that my billing period starts from the 17th and I probably won't get it up and running until next Monday or Tuesday, but so long as it works I'll survive.

    Hope I get some good speeds out of it - I have no idea how far I am from the exchange, is there a way to find that out?
     
  17. Pugs

    Pugs Member

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  18. OP
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    JebusJones

    JebusJones Member

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    Thanks for that, I entered in my address and the results look very very hopeful:

    Your Results
    Line of Sight: 498 m
    Estimated Cable: 822 m
    Estimated Attenuation: 12
    Estimated Maximum Speed: 22000

    God I love living in Brunswick...

    I was expecting speeds of around 4000 and hoping for 8000, but if I could get 20000+ I'll be ecstatic!
     
  19. power

    power Member

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    i think that site isn't 100% accurate, it tells me i'm at an exchange several suburbs away but i know i'm in the local one....
     
  20. ltd73

    ltd73 Member

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    don't get too excited yet, that site isn't necessarily accurate.

    as an example, it thinks i'm about 1200m from the exchange here.
    i'm actually 1800m by cable length.

    but what the tool cannot know is the number of 'taps' or 'spurs' on your copper - that is, where Telstra have your copper pair appearing on multiple pits in different places (means that they could use that pair in multiple places without having to re-jumper all the way back to the exchange).

    i have 5 such taps. if i had none, i'd be around 16/1 Mbps, reality is i'm around 9/1 Mbps.

    still, definitely beats ADSL1. :)
     

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