Ageia PhysX results online

Discussion in 'Video Cards & Monitors' started by eva2000, Apr 27, 2006.

  1. lowdog

    lowdog Member

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    This is NOT about 3DM wank.

    This card is supposed to enable more realistic physics effects and take the strain of off the cpu. I read an article somewhere where an Nvidia big wig said gpu power alone would not be affected by the increase of details provided by a more realistic physics environment within games, ie; current gen 7800/7900 should have ample grunt to handle it all......so why the massive fps drop when using this physiX card????.........piss poor game coding, piss poor implementation, piss poor gimmick.
     
  2. Lasmi

    Lasmi Member

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    Unless my understanding of how the card works is way off....

    Because the application:-
    a) wasn't written to take advantage of Physx
    b) wasn't showing the same level of detail in both tests (see above post)

    working as intended.
     
  3. PsychoSmiley

    PsychoSmiley Member

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    Drivers and game implementation, thats what it comes down too.
    You can have the most insane powerful rig, but if somebody codes an engine that is shithouse, you aren't going to do that well using it.

    I'll wait and see what its like when we have a more diverse range of results.
     
  4. thetron

    thetron Member

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    Something wasn't adding up right
     
  5. iNeLuKi

    iNeLuKi (Banned or Deleted)

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    Is it just me or is that guy a retard? There is a reduction in the framerate because there are far more physics tagged objects being spawned when the PPU is active so the graphics card has more to render. Its pretty simple, you want all the extra crap flying around but you expect the graphics card to render it complete with nice effects without a performance hit?
     
  6. Fortigurn

    Fortigurn Member

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    This makes sense to me. Surely the real test is if the physics performance is better or worse with the card?
     
  7. iNeLuKi

    iNeLuKi (Banned or Deleted)

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    Exactly. It's unreasonable to expect faster performance when you have a substantial increase in detail. It's also naive to take the word of some nVidia "big wig" that the graphics performance will not drop when common sense tells you that when you increase the detail sliders in any game the framerate will go down.

    The whole point of the card is increasing detail and realism to a point which a CPU, even dual core, is simply not capable of. It's not designed to increase FPS.
     
  8. sandeep

    sandeep Member

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    Jacob - How will UT2007 use Ageia enhanced physics effects? Increased object count? Fluid effects?

    Sweeney- Anywhere from explosions to have physically interacting particles... we are also looking at fluid effects to see where we can use those, gee, blood spurts sound like they might be a good candidate! A lot of other special effects like that, where they don’t affect the core game play, so that players with the physics hardware and players without the physics hardware can all play together without any restrictions.

    Jacob- There was a lot of controversy with the recently released Ghost Recon, where some players got lower performance when enabling Ageia effects because the video card has to render more objects. Is that something that should be expected or should frame rate be the same?

    Sweeney- For the record, acceleration hardware is supposed to accelerate your frame rate, not decrease it! [laughs] That seems like it’s just a messy tradeoff that they made there. You certainly want your physics hardware to improve your frame rate. That means that the physics hardware might in some cases be able to update more objects so you can actually render another frame, so you need to have some sort of rendering LOD scheme for that to manage the object counts, and obviously you don't want to take this ultra fast physics card and plug it into a machine with a crummy video card. You really want to have a great video card to match up with your physics hardware and also a decent CPU to have your system in balance to really be able to take advantage of the full thing.

    http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=70056

    I think nVidia said that they have enough grunt in the graphics card to display those extra particles.

    "AGEIA appears to imply and consumers conjecture that the PPU is generating so many objects that the GPU cannot handle the load. Multiple direct tests on the game by using NVIDIA’s and ATI GPUs indicate the GPU has room to spare and in fact, if the PPU is factored out of the game, that the particle content generated by the PPU can easily be drawn at full game speeds by the GPU. So the introduction of the PPU most certainly appears to be the cause of the slow down in this case. NVIDIA specifically can technically verify that the GPU is not the cause of the slowdown."
    http://www.firingsquad.com/features/ageia_physx_response/default.asp




    So perhaps we mgiht possibly see some increase in frame rates after all! :tongue:
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2006
  9. stevo4

    stevo4 Member

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    I think its fairly obvious that until game developers learn to utilize properly the features this card has to offer, ie not over use it, we wont see any games that really benefit from it, from a frame rate perspective anyway.

    For now the PPU is something to consider, it wont be until later this year or next year when the likes of UT2007 are released that I would be judging just how useful the PPU is. It seems that the inclusion of PhysX effects in GRAW was abit of a rush job.
     
  10. sanjeevlives

    sanjeevlives Member

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    ok so for those ppl who believe that the frame rate reduction is expected then what exactly is ur phsyx card doing? Like isnt that where the $400 went to? to draw extra physics while increasing or maintaining the same frame rate...i mean its not like the engine enables extra particles and the video card has to draw this and suffer while ur $400 card sits there doing nothing..now that doesnt make sense..........
     
  11. proffesso

    proffesso Member

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    a physics card doesnt draw anything, it just calculats.....physics! ie, collision, ragdoll, particals etc....when you have more things to draw, because the CPU is lifted from its burden of calculating physics...its going to slow down.

    its the same as going from Low detail to High Detail in a game....the price you pay for (in this case Much, much better) physics...is some draw time.

    that Nvidia sales rep was just spouting shit. the more stuff you put on screen, the more the gpu has to render.
     
  12. iNeLuKi

    iNeLuKi (Banned or Deleted)

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    No, the $400 went towards a card that enables a level of complexity that you simply couldn't have without it. The engine enables more particles and objects and the PPU calculates where they should go and how they should interact with the enviroment. GRAW is a terrible example of what it should be capable of doing, even Cell Factor is just current physics concepts multiplied by 100 pipes. Just wait until games have smoke that is altered by wind or a helicopter flying over it, volumetric explosions that can fill an enviroment and blow out weak points. Dynamic liquids that can flow through a level instead of the current limitation of a water zone that rises within a confined space. Blood that is splattered onto a wall and then runs down the wall and along the floor, well we might not get that because of censorship. How about grass that gets flattened as an object touches it or paper that is blown down a street and gets wrapped around a pole fluttering. Sure you could script some of those things but it wouldn't look as good, it would be in a limited number of locations and it would take much longer to develop.

    I don't think companies like Epic Games, Autodesk and Softimage would support the hardware if it didn't do what Ageia claimed.
     
  13. spootmonkey

    spootmonkey Member

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    Who's forgotten Powerplay? :lol:
     
  14. Cohex

    Cohex Member

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    i cant wait for this xD from that movie with teh boxes in it looks quite awsome...
     
  15. orF

    orF Member

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    I don't see the purpose of Physx add-on cards when the games could just take advantage of the 2nd, 3rd or 4th core's of CPU's...
    Which are all likely going to be atleast a bit under-utilized for some time to come.
     
  16. proffesso

    proffesso Member

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    it was explained before....a purpose built chip is far faster than a general purpose cpu. (gpu anyone??)
     
  17. orF

    orF Member

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    I thought X86 CPU's were quite good at physics calculations.
    The reason the PS3 needs the Ageia PhysX chip is because it's main processor isn't good for physics calculations, but is geared up for media/image/sound processing and number crunching/maths simulation etc.
     
  18. iNeLuKi

    iNeLuKi (Banned or Deleted)

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    What are you on about? Provide A link not a few hundred.
     
  19. spootmonkey

    spootmonkey Member

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    Show a little initiative.
     
  20. proffesso

    proffesso Member

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    why bring it up if you arent going to provide information?
     

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