AIO cooler and fans but high CPU temps

Discussion in 'Extreme and Water Cooling' started by vladtepes, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. vladtepes

    vladtepes Member

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    On my gaming/office system I am running this setup for cooling the i7 6700K
    (which is currently not overclocked - mainly because the OC failed presumably due to heat issues)

    CPU Cooler: Thermaltake Water 3.0 Riing RGB 360mm AIO info

    (full systems specs here)

    I have three Thermaltake riing fans in a pull configuration on top of the rad.
    While the fans are PWM compatible, Control of the fans is via a 'box' with buttons which allows a high or low speed (as far as I can tell the fans aren't actually PWM controlled to any extent in this scenario.

    The AIO is connected to the CPU fan connector on the motherboard, as per instructions, so I ASSSUME that this controls the speed of the pump?

    Playing with the fan (high/low) speed button doesn't appear to make any difference to the 'felt' volume of air being moved, nor particularly to the temps.

    The AIO appears to be circulating properly or at least I can hear the pump and it seems as if I can 'feel' movement when I hold the tube..

    So why does this concern me? Well the CPU is sitting at around 65 ish when under some load, but is peaking up around 95 under load which is way too high.... Idle temps are around 40-45.

    I'd be really appreciative of any tips as to how I could go about troubleshooting this set up. And particularly about resolving it and getting it working properly !

    It's frustrating because I've managed to get around almost all of the challenges of this build, other than the cooling issues....

    I might add, for sake of completeness, that the reason fro choosing this cooler is that the large air cooler I had in mind won't fit in the case, and all the other AIO's I looked at the radiator was a fraction too thick to fit in the case.. it's a bloody tight fit as is....




    n.b. I wasn't quite sure where to put this thread as it concerns an AIO cooler AND fans... perhaps the mods will be kind enough to move this if they think it appropriate.

    Thank you
     
  2. OP
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    vladtepes

    vladtepes Member

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  3. Morgue

    Morgue Member

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    I built a rig similar to yours back when Skylake first came out, with the 6700k attached to a Corsair H110i GTX which is a 280mm AIO. It was currently the best at the time that fit inside the m-itx case chosen for the build.

    Initial testing showed the 6700k at ridiculous temps with the stock intel cooler, but after attaching the H110i, I found the temps weren't much better.

    I ended up delidding the CPU and found a huge bubble of air (no contact) between the die and the heat spreader. This was due to way too much adhesive being used to glue the heatspreader and the PCB together. After applying some Noctua NT-H1, I got a 20-30c reduction from my stock testing. It allowed me to sit the CPU at 4.4ghz/8 threads with no extra voltage while barely hiting 65c with a conservative fan curve.

    During a later tear down, I managed to save another 2-3c (while having the fans on a lower fan curve) by switching to Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut thermalpaste, but that was rather expensive compared to the noctua.

    My suggestion is that, if you've eliminated problems like the mounting pressure, proper contact, thermal paste and made sure the sticker on the bottom of the TT AIO was removed, your next step would be to consider a delid.

    According to a quick google, the 360mm TT AIO should be either on par or slightly better than the H110i AIO I was using.

    Edit: It sounds like the Pump/AIO/Fans are all doing their job, the heat just isn't getting transferred. Try the usual stuff first, remounting the block, etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  4. straiton

    straiton Member

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    according to that diag, pump connects to SYS fan header, and fans connect to CPU fan header.

    In any case, have you checked the header curves in bios, to ensure they ramp up with temp?

    If it was me, i'd prob set SYS(pump) to 100% always, and CPU(fans) as desired

    edit: actually looking at it again, prob set both to 100% always, as it seems fans are controlled by controller box.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  5. OP
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    vladtepes

    vladtepes Member

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    Thanks.

    The idea of delidding scares me but hopefully wont come to that. Ill remove it and redo the thermal paste see what happens. Cheers
     
  6. Morgue

    Morgue Member

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    If you want to solve it entirely and nab yourself a huge reduction in temps, delidding is the only way to go. You can do it yourself, but it comes with the danger of breaking the chip. I'd highly recommend sourcing a delidding tool such as - https://rockitcool.myshopify.com/

    I'm not 100% sure where to get them in Australia, but if you're willing to pay for the safety, they're well worth it.

    Generally speaking it's most likely a mounting or contact issue. If your CPU rushes up to 95c instantly under load, it's the contact. If it gradually rises over a long period of time, the tubes and radiator are hot (50+c), then it's the thermal capacity of the AIO. I highly doubt there's anything wrong with the AIO though, it should easily be able to take double the heat output of your CPU.
     
  7. OP
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    vladtepes

    vladtepes Member

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    OK so here's a report of where I'm at.

    I had a look in the BIOS at the Q-Fan control (that's what it's called here anyway) and found that, in the UEFI terminology:

    CPU FAN - appears that the radiator fans (from the AIO) are connected here.
    CHA 1 - (as far as I can tell nothing connected)
    CHA 2 - appears that AIO [pump is connected here.

    The profiles were set to 'quiet' or 'standard'.
    In theory they do ramp up with temps, but...

    So what I did was set all to manual - 100%

    Immediately obvious is the significantly increased noise from both the fans and pump. That stands to reason. I left it at that for the time being.

    On reboot, temps were down.

    I don't know whether this is the 'best' way of testing this but it's probably indicative.

    I used CPUID HW Monitor to watch the core temps.

    I used CPU-Z to stress the CPU (running it at 100%).

    Having let it run the stress test for about 10 minutes, peak temps didn't exceed 75 deg C.

    So at least delidding etc isn't required.

    I'll just need to get the connectors onto the right mobo fan headers (CBF tonight it's awfully tight in there !)

    I've stopped the stress test now, reset the min/max, and will let the system go overnight and see what temps it reaches during that time.

    Thanks for your help.


    On a related (ish) note - HW Monitor is reporting my 'mainboard' temp as 111 deg C. That seems high! Min/Max is 110/112 so it's consistent...

    The SSDs are reporting as 60 deg C and 33 deg C (the hotter one presumably being the one on the inside of the two-drive bracket.

    HDD is a happy 25.
    GPU is 50

    Commentary on the above is welcome too.

    (I should mention that I currently don't have the rear case fan working... and the sides of the system are off - so airflow could definitely be improved if I sorted that out)
     
  8. juzz86

    juzz86 Member

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    I would do as suggested above and feed a constant 12V to the pump and fans.

    I have used the fans you get as part of that cooler, I broke a controller box trying to feed it less than 12V so I just fed them from molex daisy-chain connectors (I was running nine of them at once).

    Use the switch on the controller to ramp the fans (I know you only get two speeds by default, but I found fitting inline resistors to the fans and running them at full speed (blue light?) got me more airflow with about the same noise as low speed by itself. I only really recommend this if you're having trouble with airflow and have the gear handy, though - the gains aren't a whole lot, I saw about one Degree coolant temp drops over low speed alone. The Riings also seem to run quieter in pull than push, which helped - but my rad FPI is a lot lower than yours, too.

    Peak of 75C in stress test is pretty good, I'd be happy with that :thumbup:
     
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    vladtepes

    vladtepes Member

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    Yep its only the noise that is the issue but that's partly going to be affected by the fact the sides are off if they were back at least the pump noise would be reduced.

    Those in line resistors you mention - that link states Noctua but they look generic and would do what I need I assume.

    I had also wondered whether the corsair LED fans might not be a better option? But that might just introduce a whole other range of problems...



    Honestly the whole cooling issues with this dual system are a PITA.
    Fin in theory, a good learning exercise but would I recommend anyone else build such a system? No, not really. :D
     
  10. juzz86

    juzz86 Member

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    Yeah, I linked Noctua ones but actually used eBay cheapies. They were all out of sight so sleeving didn't matter.

    There isn't much you can do about the AIO pump noise, they've come a long way but are still a small pump, and need to spin pretty fast.

    PhotoBucket broke all your photos in your thread which makes it a bit hard to visualise, sorry.

    As for swapping to other LED fans, I've had limited exposure to the Corsair gear but invested pretty heavily in NZXT myself - and don't really recommend taking the same path. The Aer fans are a weird design and lack balance on three of my eight units, and are overpriced for the quality. They also don't play nicely with a Grid+ fan controller under about 40%. CAM and the Hue+ LED gear is excellent, though - and I do appreciate having everything sync together colour-wise.

    Thermaltake do a 'premium' tier RGB LED fan setup that's USB-controlled and software driven, but the software is pretty lousy and as I'd hot QC issues with their cheaper (older) RGB units I didn't splash out there.

    I also dislike the way LINK drives, and the noise of Corsair fans in general, which steered me away from them.

    Every man and his dog does RGB now though, even AeroCool and InWin have a fan range now, I think. Plenty of options, and just because it didn't work for me doesn't mean you won't love it :thumbup:
     
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    vladtepes

    vladtepes Member

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    The provlem being of course that its a lot of money to spend if i discover i dont like them.

    I think ill keep the rgb fans on the aio as they are working. And just try to get the rest of the fans working using cheap non led units
    Cooling first and worry about flashing it up later.
     
  12. juzz86

    juzz86 Member

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    I was reading through your fan controller thread last night - gee there's some knowledgeable folk over there!

    Indeed, and if anyone knows about wasting money on fans it's me.

    The Thermaltake box sucks overall, but it does what it needs to for the attached fans. I have wondered whether a home-grown 'splitter' would allow the box to drive more than three fans, unsure on how much current makes its way through there, though.

    As you say, cooling first :thumbup:
     
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    vladtepes

    vladtepes Member

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    I had asked about that on various forums and the consensus seemed to be that TT use some sort or proprietary setup that makes 'hacking' this near impossible.

    I can't say I'm very impressed with TT especially as they don't answer customer emails (see my headphones thread...)
     
  14. juzz86

    juzz86 Member

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    From what the guys in your other thread were saying, there's a couple of different types of more common RGB LED setups, and it'd take some signal snooping to find out which one was in play here.

    Are these the non-Premium RGB fans (first-gen)? There's a five-pin port on the IN side of the box for daisy-chaining a few together - I don't know how many, nor where the cables are for it, but apparently that's what it's for!
     
  15. Sphinx2000

    Sphinx2000 Member

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    I have this exact same problem, might have to delid... :Paranoid:
    What glue to you use to re-glue?
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017

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