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AMD 2014 lines.

Discussion in 'AMD x86 CPUs and chipsets' started by stmok, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. stmok

    stmok Member

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    AMD has officially released its roadmap for 2014.
    => http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9MjAxMjA5fENoaWxkSUQ9LTF8VHlwZT0z&t=1

    The bad news...
    => The FX series will NOT get any Steamroller love in 2014. Remains Piledriver-based.
    => Same with Opteron series! (2 to 4 processor socket).
    => AMD will abandon Kabini-based Opterons.

    The good news...
    => Kaveri APU (Steamroller cores) is coming early 2014.
    => Beema APU (Puma cores) is coming in mid-2014.
    => Berlin APU (single processor Opteron version of Kaveri) is coming 2014.
    => Seattle (ARM Cortex A57) replaces Kabini-based Opteron in 2014.


    For the people around here, Socket AM3+ isn't going anywhere. It will be stagnant in 2014, as AMD neglects the Enthusiast audience.

    AMD doesn't really have a choice, as they don't have the financial or engineering resources to do lots of things at the same time. Their focus is on APUs.
     
  2. Digit

    Digit Member

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    Actually this makes perfect sense when you consider that AMD is getting a lot of their performance from their HSA abilities, ie, using the GPU to do the interger (or was it FP?) processing as you pointed out in the other thread. So really when you think about it, if they're getting not getting performance out of the CPU side, why'd they use it when they can get more by combining the CPU + GPU to do the same tasks. The biggest issue is having something like Mantle or something so they can take full advantage of the GPU-esque part of the APU to perform CPU tasks efficiently, which we saw evidence of with Java et al implementing performance optimisaitons for the HSA features

    So i'm not sure their paradigm has completely (or perhaps it has for the moment) as their highest performing chips are the APU's... So perhaps AMD is changing, but they're envisioning the APU as replacing the CPU as the top performer.
     
  3. SLATYE

    SLATYE SLATYE, not SLAYTE

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    What's the point in even having AM3+ now? It can barely compete at the moment, and with no significant upgrades it'll be obsolete by the end of 2014. Perhaps AMD will look at reviving it in 2015 - but it's much more likely that they'll either stick with the APUs or move to a whole new DDR4-based socket.

    It just seems to me that they'd be better-off saying "we're giving up on AM3+. If anyone actually wants a top-end AMD system, go buy an Opteron." Then there's no need to spend any money on trying to make the FX series vaguely competitive with whatever Intel has come up with, and they can spend all their money on more useful things.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  4. Domokun

    Domokun Member

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    I was thinking exactly the same thing.

    How is the single-threaded performance of Kaveri (i.e. Steamroller)? Does it compete with anything Intel has released since Sandy Bridge?
     
  5. TOFUGil

    TOFUGil Member

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    lol..was just gonna ask what's happening with AM3+ ..looks like its RIP AM3+. :p
     
  6. mAJORD

    mAJORD Member

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    Keeps the 32nm fab busy? :p

    I guess the point is they don't have to spend, or try to do anything. The SKU's exist, so there's no R&D, and they fill a gap, obviously making some money.

    Once broadwell hit's, they may phase them out. Or release some new SKU's with lower TDPs. Not much involved in that at all.
     
  7. SLATYE

    SLATYE SLATYE, not SLAYTE

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    I guess that makes sense.

    On the other hand, if AMD keeps producing more of the same chips, they run the risk that they'll have a very hard time selling them. Intel's faster/cheaper chips continue to drive AM3+ chips into a corner where there's simply no reason to buy AM3+ any more. The APUs have a similar effect. A bunch of AM3+ CPUs won't do AMD any good if they're sitting on a shelf in a warehouse.
     
  8. mAJORD

    mAJORD Member

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    Faster, far more efficient.. certainly. But not always cheaper for a given purpose.

    Surprisingly, AM3+ still has a niche appeal, and if they're producing in niche-quantities (Which they would be - AMD has projected only 30% of their desktop shipments to be AM3+ vs FM2) then, why not.

    There's still pretty convincing perf/$ to be had for discrete graphics systems if you're on a strict budget. Especially if you consider everythings unlocked to OC.

    e.g: I just upgraded a sys with an FX 6300, $14 h/s cooler, and a 760 chipset AM3+ board, for $ $220 all up.

    It's [highly] overclockble, quiet (thanks to the h/s!), and runs BF4 very well.. Its only glaring downside is SATA2 on the cheap board, and its load consumption.

    For the same money, to go an Intel machine you'd be stuck with an i3.. and non overclockable at that.. Don't get me wrong - Haswell i3's are surprisingly quick for a 2c/4t chip even @ stock, and for an "all rounder" with IGP would be the obvious pick over anything AM3+. As would the A10 FM2 CPU's , but neither can match MT performance of a 3m/6t vishera, are actually more expensive, and you can't overclock them! (the i3's that is, not the A10s)

    If I get hold of a hw i3 it'd be interesting to see how it compares performance wise.
     
  9. dirtyd

    dirtyd Member

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    http://fudzilla.com/home/item/33169-amd’s-glofo-deal-could-lead-to-inventory-issues

    They're going to have to make something with all that spare fab capacity, surely they wouldn't just pay it out? Question is: what do they produce? Maybe Mullins, hence the tablet announcement.

    Must taste slightly bitter after AMD publicly derided tablets a few years ago!
     
  10. DiGiTaL MoNkEY

    DiGiTaL MoNkEY Inverted Monkey

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    Sucks even more when your highend AM3+ board won't even support the latest processors 93X and 95X FX-series. So my next upgrade will most likely be from the Intel side if they can't release a processor that works with existing AM3+ boards.
     
  11. lionman

    lionman Member

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    A line of Mullins powered tablets would be sweet. Not just windows though, not sure if the market is big enough for windows tablets.

    Intel have done the Android thing with Motorola/Z2460 etc, it would be awesome to see some Puma action in an Android phone/tablet line.

    I think branching out into AMD branded hardware would be good for the brand. If they got it right of course. Some pure AOSP devices with available kernel source would go down very nicely in the dev community and has the potential to change the market.

    The graphics performance would smash anything else on the market surely...? I guess it depends on how well it scales down. You really need power draw to be closer to 1000-1500mW for a mobile device.

    Also how does a SDP translate into TDP?
     
  12. OP
    OP
    stmok

    stmok Member

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    On the low-end side...

    AMD is working on a new tablet reference design codenamed Project Discovery...It would appear the tablet-aimed Temash APU didn't catch on; with limited number of OEMs bothering with it. The reference system will be using the newer Mullins APU (Puma cores...Its tablet version of Beema APU).

    AMD entering the tablet business? New images reveal all-new device
    => http://www.techradar.com/news/mobil...ness-new-pictures-show-all-new-device-1199565

    Details won't be revealed until CES 2014 (Mid-January)...Along with all those other AMD APU related announcements.


    On the other side of the fence?

    Intel's upcoming Cherry Trail (Bay Trail successor).
    => http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showpost.php?p=15739700&postcount=27

    Intel's current responses to competitors...
    * Improve IGP => Compete with AMD APU lines.
    * Improve power footprint => Compete with ARM.

    The only thing holding Intel back from dominating the tablet market is their lack of proper execution. eg: Issues with webGL on Android and driver/codec incompatibility on Windows 8.x (No 64bit support...Intel claims its because they're waiting for Microsoft to certify them. But the hardware specs show Bay Trail only supports up to 4GB RAM.)


    ...So AMD still has an opportunity to exploit a weakness of Intel's execution of Bay Trail. ;)
     
  13. OP
    OP
    stmok

    stmok Member

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    Thermal Design Power
    ...amount of cooling a processor requires when running at 100% load.

    Scenario Design Power
    ...power draw of a chip in "average" conditions.


    You can't translate one into another. Mainly because SDP is nonsensical Marketing spin.

    eg: If I can't achieve a successful result that is competitive, I'll just redefine what success is...In order to make me look good or helps me sell a product. :rolleyes:


    SDP was first introduced by Intel as a marketing tool for their ULV Ivy-Bridge CPUs...
    => http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/power-saving-through-marketing-intels-7-watt-ivy-bridge-cpus/

    ...and now its being used by AMD.
    => "If Intel can get away with it, why can't we?"
     
  14. lionman

    lionman Member

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    Thought as much.
     
  15. dirtyd

    dirtyd Member

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    The thing holding Intel back in the tablet market is price, it's not technical IMO. The margins they're used to enjoying in their traditional PC market don't exist in the tablet/phone market, and they need those margins to keep investing in process development. Hence why they're starting to make noises about taking on more fab customers.

    I guess they will be pretty picky about who they allow as a customer though, because they absolutely cannot afford to lose their process advantage.
     
  16. mtma

    mtma Member

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    It's amusing that it took AMD so long to cotton on, even back in the day Intel's TDP ratings were a form of 'SDP' - when AMD's numbers were a far less forgiving figure. I guess back in those days AMD were confident about their products performance though.
     
  17. mAJORD

    mAJORD Member

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    Actually AMD have done this before, many yrs ago under a different name, and used exclusively on server processors. It was called ACP, i.e "Average CPU Power" back then.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_CPU_power

    At the time AMD server platforms genuinely did consume less for a given "CPU TDP" than Intel due to Intel's insistence on using FB DIMMs , which really blew out the platform power consumption. So this was a way of lowering the number printed on the box more or less.

    as a concept though it does have some merit. Whilst an OEM does have to deisgn for the worse case thermal scenario, it is handy to know what the device is likely to see in reality, 99% of the time.

    For example, consider a highly portable, consumer orientated device: If you design your device to maintain comfortable operation around its 15w TDP (as in, comfortable to hold / reasonable fan speeds / be capable of sustaining this load at 100% duty) , yet, in reality, for the applications it's actually going to see, it only will ever consume ~10w, thenreally it's a waste of resources. You can instead design the above factors around 10w, yet, ensure it will be able to withstand 15w if it has to.. albeit at "uncomfortable" temperatures/ with the fan flat out / etc etc.

    This is particularly important for processors like Ivy bridge, when used in things like tablets, where you just do not see the kind of load that the processors are capable of..They have so much FP horsepower, which consumes power, but just isn't used in ultra-portable applications

    The glaring issue with this of course, is how do you define this in a way thats universal between manufacturers
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
  18. dirtyd

    dirtyd Member

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    They usually call it a standard don't they? :p

    Surely respectful rivals AMD and Intel can come together for the common good? :lol:
     
  19. lionman

    lionman Member

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    Heaven forbid they just state idle and load power consumption figures...
     
  20. OP
    OP
    stmok

    stmok Member

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    If this desktop processor roadmap is real, get ready to be disappointed for the next 2 years with AMD...Especially if you're expecting their FX series to evolve. :upset:

    Source: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1040421818
    [​IMG]

    The only silver lining with this roadmap are:
    * if you invest in Socket FM2+, it allows for an upgrade path to the Excavator-based Carrizo APU.
    * The low-end APU line-up hasn't missed a beat. It will remain chugging along on schedule. (Bobcat, Jaguar, Puma.)

    Take this roadmap with a grain of salt. (As desktop roadmaps tend to change more often with AMD)...You don't know how much GlobalFoundries will ruin it or when AMD can't take any more and get TSMC to manufacture all their processor solutions.


    Side note:

    * The writing is on the wall. AMD is leaving the Enthusiast. SoC designs (marketed as APUs) for OEM, budget/mainstream consumers, and game consoles are its future now.
    => Chasing consumer marketshare. (Its what AMD CEO Rory Reed is good at. He demonstrated this when he was at Lenovo.)

    * Raw CPU performance is no longer the focus. Its GPGPU technologies taking up the slack. (AMD's HSA).

    * As I like to see both sides of the coin. This is what Intel is planning in 2015. (Based on what I know so far.)
    => Skylake. (Tock release: New architecture on 14nm process node.)
    => DDR4 (up to 64 GB of RAM).
    => LGA1151 socket.
    => L1 cache doubles from the current 64KB to 128KB;
    => L2 cache doubles from the current 256KB to 512KB.
    => Increase PCI Express 3.0 lanes from the current 16 to 20 lanes.
    => Introduction of PCI Express 4.0 on Enthusiast and Xeon variants.
    => New instructions:
    => * Advanced Vector Extensions 3.2
    => * SHA Extensions (SHA-1/-256 Secure Hash Algorithms).
    => * Memory Protection Extensions.
    => * Multi-Precision Add-Carry Instruction Extensions.
    => Support for SATA Express.


    Its really a fight of two different approaches to computing...

    * Powerful CPU with adequate IGP and GPGPU capability.
    vs
    * Adequate CPU with powerful IGP and GPGPU capability.
     

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