AMD's F U to Nvidia

Discussion in 'Video Cards & Monitors' started by lowdog, Dec 7, 2018.

  1. RnR

    RnR Member

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    HBM2 memory prices could go down which would influence the price AMD charges quite heavily.

    Don't understand this part? I thought they were pretty much neck and neck in terms of driver support in this day and age?
     
  2. jimbogimp

    jimbogimp Member

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    funny comment
    I recon we only got this card thanks to nvidia jacking prices in the RTX series allowing AMD to just scrape in at the same price point with a competing product. So I guess we have Nvidia to thank for this AMD release? :lol:
     
  3. Perko

    Perko Member

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    No. Nowhere near. The basics are much much better, but the lack of developer support in both directions, (devs<->AMD), means that you can cop a significant performance penalty in individual titles and be stuck with it for effing ages.
    But it's not as bad as it was, these days usually the people saying that AMD drivers are a shitshow only use Nvidia; conversely, most of those who say that AMD drivers are great and/or better than Nvidia's wouldn't touch an Nvidia card with a pole. That's just people justifying their purchasing decisions with denial and assumption, (have a look in the Apple forum for the number one example).

    My view on it at this point in time is that Nvidia are the premium gaming brand, and AMD are the compute champ. It boils down to OpenCL being a standard that AMD can design their software to, as well as having an arch advantage, and gaming being a disjointed mess that Nvidia are prepared to throw the cash at to give that user group a better experience. Teaching game devs to build to a higher standard rather than hacking bits together at the end isn't an option apparently.

    Yes, in this instance the high price of the RTX 2080 made the Radeon VII viable in the marketplace, but it's the classic AMD extremist line to claim for months in the lead up to a release that they are the sole source of goodness in the industry and exist to lower prices, and then blame Nvidia or Intel when they don't.
     
  4. PsychoSmiley

    PsychoSmiley Member

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    Thanks for the clarification!
     
  5. Sipheren

    Sipheren Member

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    Their budget stuff is Navi down the road, they never really intended to even put out Vega 7nm for gaming, it was just for data centre.

    It costs them nothing to sell dud ones though, every unit sold is just a bonus and NVIDIA made it all possible with their stupidly priced RTX cards.
     
  6. wintermute000

    wintermute000 Member

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    But why buy Radeon VII at all? Is it just a cheaper way to get a FirePro (but then the drivers are different and @ compute level people tend to go with support / bulk)?

    re: drivers, one minor point is that if you don't want a binary blob the linux experience is much better with AMD. But yes oh yes. I was team red for a LONG time (all the way from the ATI 9700 Pro through the 4850, 5850, 7870....) then I switched to Team Green (1060) and suddenly all the jank, buggy driver issues, frametime inconsistency etc. even the loud-ass fans.... gone. FPS aside its been a much better user experience on team green so far.

    I'm struggling to see the sense of this product, 10% slower and much hotter/louder than the 2080 without any whizbang RTX features or equivalent 'unique selling point', WTF.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  7. Sipheren

    Sipheren Member

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    Kind of the same reason I got a titan, it's almost a full on workstation card but doesn't use the crazy drivers and doesn't have all the compute function. The big bonus of the Radeon VII is it only has a small amount of limitations over the MI50 from what I read, which is why I am interested in one.
     
  8. wintermute000

    wintermute000 Member

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    OK so basically a cheaper way to get a FirePro for hobbyists / semi-pro or small companies who are happy to tinker/fiddle (instead of using mainline Quadro/FirePro with certified drivers etc.)
     
  9. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

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    Regarding Nvidia vs AMD driver support, I'd say AMD is getting very close to Nvidia in terms of general responsiveness and adding in features. There's still a bit of a lack of polish, which is why everyone is talking about how the Radeon VII will be better "once the driver issues are resolved"; Nvidia tends to go to greater lengths to release fairly robust drivers for their GPUs out of the gate. But both parties will have always issues because deadlines are usually determine by the marketing department and your rival's (as well as gaming partners') release schedules, as you know.

    There will be some interesting changes when AMD puts out their competitive, lower end 7nm (Navi) gaming GPU rather than this high-end repurposed GPU. Hopefully this will trigger Nvidia to go to war as well, and the two companies will return to sane GPU prices.

    I'm also wondering if and when Nvidia will finally dump their 10 year-old driver Control Panel interface and features, and release an entirely new driver package. As I say, the competition between these two companies should turn around a rather dull period.
     
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  10. Sipheren

    Sipheren Member

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    I'm interested in when NVIDIA will move on from the Maxwell based arch, I guess due to it being so good them may just leave it now and focus on getting more RT cores on their chips.

    Would be nice for an update to the driver interface, but to be honest I like the NVIDIA control panel as it's simple and old school like how I feel control panels should be. :)
     
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  11. .Spada.

    .Spada. Member

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    I think they will eventually merge geforce experience and the driver interface. I mean, it seems logical.
     
  12. Sipheren

    Sipheren Member

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    Yeah, that will suck. They will probably make us have an account as well just to adjust the driver settings....
     
  13. PersianImmortal

    PersianImmortal Member

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    I've been hoping they don't for ages. I was dealing with the guy who launched the GeForce Experience project for several years. In one phone conversation where he tried to get me involved I told them that there's no "One Size Fits All" approach to game settings. One example I gave was Depth of Field and Bokeh, some people love these effects, some people hate them - and there are other settings like these. There's no way any software can automatically determine whether DoF being on or off is "optimal" for me versus other settings. Unless you define optimal as the highest possible framerate, in which case all settings should be at their minimum. Otherwise different people attach different weightings to various settings, and have different FPS targets depending on what they get in return for lower FPS. When I first played Morrowind, there was no way I was going to turn off the shader-based water which was amazing to see in 2001, despite the impact it had on performance.

    Anyway, I digress. Yes, I imagine they might merge everything into GeForce Experience, but at the same time, they've also been smart enough not to enforce GeForce Experience usage yet, despite earlier indications that they were going to. The people working there are smarter then you might imagine, and I'm sure it's the same at AMD. It's more the commercial pressures put on them that result in stuff like this Radeon VII GPU. To slightly alter a song title from Jack Black This is not the Greatest GPU in the World.This is Just a Tribute.
     
  14. mAJORD

    mAJORD Member

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    That was the same attitude Intel had post Sandy bridge. They thought minor iterations would keep them untouchable - now look at the situation they're facing.

    Jen Sen is a smart and clearly very competent CEO that's spearheaded Nvidia since it's inception - so I give him a lot more credit than that - the key factor is whether the gaming GPU market is worth defending fiercely long term - and from AMD's point of view, worth pursuing fiercely. It is certainly NOT either company's only interest in the GPU space, and this is where it gets hard to predict into the future.
     
  15. ipv6ready

    ipv6ready Member

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    has AMD gone backwards if you take out the advantages of 7nm?
     
  16. Sipheren

    Sipheren Member

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    Yeah agreed, the guy is a smart man, I feel pushing more GPU performance in raster is not worth it as much as moving forward with realtime raytracing, I just feel that's where the future is going to go.

    GCN has been great in certain aspects, it's a compute monster and technically has more potential performance than the competing nvidia cards in each iteration, it just doesn't work that well in Gaming as you need to program for it to utilise all those cores. This is why AMD wanted Mantle and why GCN cards usually work well in DX12/Vulkan (depending on the implimentation). With their limited budget AMD had to make one chip that would do everything and they edged it more towards datacentre than gaming for obvious reasons.
     
  17. chainbolt

    chainbolt Member

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    Indeed, the current situation, where nVidia has been easily dominating in basically all (?) performance segments, wasn't good for us.

    In order to really shine and makes nVidia fan boys re-think, AMD needs a Radeon that competes also at the highest level. It looks like 7nm has the potential, but apparently not with the oudated Vega architecture. I am in for shopping a 2080ti. I thought/hopped Radeon VII would help bringing 2080ti prices down. It seems to happen somehow for 2080, but not for 2080ti.
     
  18. chainbolt

    chainbolt Member

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    Maybe I am wrong here. I am too long away from Radeon/AMD. I can only refer to my own experience with the constantly updated nVidia drivers I get for my current 1080, they get each time better, and then the talk on "enthusiast" forums.
     
  19. RnR

    RnR Member

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    And I'm a long way from nvidia, but I have gaming friends that are long term nvidia users - they are jumping to AMD for their next gpu upgrade.
     
  20. power

    power Member

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    and what's the reasoning for this jump?
     

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