AMD’s Next Gen x86 High Performance Core is Code Named “Zen”

Discussion in 'AMD x86 CPUs and chipsets' started by Frontl1ne, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. Bertross

    Bertross Member

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    I like a challenge and let my screen tear like crazy! I reckon after 144hz if your not improving your game you have to admit your a shit gamer :p

    240Hz LCDs seems crazy!
     
  2. gregpolk

    gregpolk Member

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    I can appreciate the difference in smoothness going from 60hz to 120 or 144 but I honestly can't tell after that. But then I'll never turn pro.
     
  3. Bertross

    Bertross Member

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    Im waiting for those 144Hz HDR 34" UW to hit i reckon they would be worth buying. And good for er work :D
     
  4. gregpolk

    gregpolk Member

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    Yeah I want that as well. I wish Nvidia would stop being shits and support freesync though as I'd like all that plus freesync and not be locked into any particular video card brand.
     
  5. The OC

    The OC Member

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    All things considered, generally the faster CPU today will also hold up better in future games. Of course, we can't predict the future, but if past history means anything:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76-8-4qcpPo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jiXkrRoD4w

    You would think with game engines being much more multi-threaded today than in 2011, the FX 8370 would gain ground (if not beat) the 4C/4T 2500K but that clearly isn't the case.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  6. Ratzz

    Ratzz Member

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    Every thing I do is at 1080P 60Hz. Its true my gaming is limited to the occasional run of NFS Underground, or Mario :lol: but for my needs its just fine.

    My monitor is just a 1080P 60Hz 32" Samsung smart TV, so I don't really have a choice...

    Since I sit 50cm from the TV, and mostly use it for AV conversion and playback, or messing around with Sketchup and Solidworks, I simply don't need mega resolutions or refresh rates. I'm sure I am probably part of the silent majority in that regard.

    I like to buy nice things, but for many of us its like buying an Aventador for a 5km daily commute. Nice to have, but a bit silly really. A Honda Jizz would be far more suitable for the purpose.

    The only reason I've ever really got into enthusiast stuff is I discovered I enjoyed overclocking. Honestly, anyone using better than a 1070 is an enthusiast, not just a casual gamer. There are more console gamers than PC gamers are there not??

    New daily is a Ryzen 1700 with 32GB 2666, and a 3GB GTX 1060. It will do everything I need from a daily for not a large investment. At least I hope so, the brand new Asrock AB350N ITX board (is suspected to have) died after an hour of use - I should know whats happening with that tomorrow I hope :lol:

    Perhaps at some time in the future, when 144Hz 4K Tv's are 100 bucks in Cashies and mid level graphics are sufficient to run them, I'll upgrade. At the moment I'm perfectly happy with 1080P, but hey, I was happy when I bought my first Thorn 26" B&W TV for a long time too :thumbup:

    I admit there are times I wouldn't mind a bit more screen real estate, but if that ever becomes too annoying I'll just add another monitor.. far cheaper than buying some super high res screen with text so small I can't read it.

    If I build a new, faster rig, it will be a balls out overclocker, separate from my daily which hasn't been the case till now. I still won't need a fancy screen though.
     
  7. gregpolk

    gregpolk Member

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    The problem with comparing those CPUs is its comparing a good quad core CPU vs a shit essentially quad core CPU across generations where we went from quad core being mainstream, to quad core still being the mainstream. The Fx chip has no advantage that can be leveraged.

    With Ryzen vs Kaby for example it'll be comparing a good 8 core to a good quad core, across generations where 4 core was the mainstream to when 4core will NOT be the mainstream. Games and software are made for the hardware out there. Ryzen has a total performance with multithreading advantage that can still be leveraged. It's CPU performance in games can increase over time as titles become better optimised to make use of the increasing mainstream core counts.

    The video you linked even makes the disclaimer that whether Kaby outperforming Ryzen in most games is an indicator of future performance is yet to be seen.

    Although yes I agree if all you do is play games, you should probably still buy intel. Because currently you'll get the best performance and thats what matters. I just disagree with the unfounded hypothesis that you should find current 1080p gaming performance really important, even if its of no significance to the performance you need from your device now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  8. Sgt Bilko

    Sgt Bilko Member

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    You're assuming the status quo won't change there :)
     
  9. adamsleath

    adamsleath Member

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    interesting.
    referred to in your youtube links.
    https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Ryzen-Memory-Latencys-Impact-Weak-1080p-Gaming
    https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/AMD-Ryzen-and-Windows-10-Scheduler-No-Silver-Bullet

    just confirms the higher latency of zen memory system, and CCX interconnect (infinity fabric) wrt intel kbl. and its significant effects on gaming performance.

    but also noted is that various gaming titles eg. ashes of the singularity, mafia 3, and a few others aswell, due to their coding favours ryzen.
    it really does come down to coding, the game engine's multicore optimisations, etc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  10. The OC

    The OC Member

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    I totally agree with you if the comparison was Ryzen vs Kaby Lake. In productivity Ryzen smashes KBL, there is no comparison, and its not like Ryzen is a *bad* gaming CPU, Intel is simply faster. Though how much 'faster' it is in reality depends a lot on your other hardware such as GPU, monitor resolution and monitor refresh rate. So the gaming advantage of Intel could be anything from 'significant' (1080P 144Hz/240Hz screens) to 'almost nothing' (4K/60Hz)

    With regards to games utilising more cores/threads in future, I agree that the Ryzen should make up ground or even exceed KBL. Even todays most heavily threaded games like AOTS are starting to see a Ryzen match or exceed a 7700K,

    Ryzens MT advantage over KBL shrinks to essentially nothing though once CFL is in the picture. Ryzen 7 and CFL i7s are essentially a wash in MT throughput despite CFL having only 6 cores because its higher IPC and clockspeed makes up for the difference.

    I'm pretty certain that a 8700K would always beat a Ryzen 7 in games, be it today, in 2 years or 5 years. It's IPC and clockspeed advantages are too high to ignore. The 7700K is not so clear cut, Ryzen will certainly gain ground on it, whether it will be enough to overtake it in a few years as games increasingly get more multi-threaded, time will tell.
     
  11. gregpolk

    gregpolk Member

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    Most likely CL will be on top, yes. It has the advantage of better single thread high frequency performance that many new games love to this day, and will at worst equal it on overall multithreaded performance if you look at the 8700k. Although dollar for dollar in the mid range, you're looking at a 1700 vs an 8600k for equal money, where the 1700 should beat out the 8600k in productivity (16t vs 6t), but should keep pace with it in gaming (SMT doesn't really bring much an advantage in games usually). AMD don't have enough with the frequency to compete against an 8700k for gaming performance for a while. They really need to be getting 8c at ~4.5ghz at least. Hopefully zen+ brings a little clock speed boost.

    So here's a thought. With that in mind would you suggest someone buy an 8600k over a 1700? I probably wouldn't for anyone doing mixed work loads (not 100% gaming). Then, would you suggest someone spend $100+ dollars extra on the 8700k for added gaming performance, or spend that $100+ extra on a beefier GPU and just get the 1700. Unless you're a 1080p high frequency gamer, I'd still probably suggest the cheaper AMD CPU and bump up the GPU for the same total spend.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  12. The OC

    The OC Member

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    For mixed workloads, I would agree and say Ryzen 7 is the better choice vs a 8600K. An R7 1700 would dominate a 8600K in MT workloads, it takes a 8700K to essentially match Ryzen in MT.

    The 8600K would still be ahead in gaming (it is within a couple of % of the 8700K in most games) so in a strictly gaming build I could make a case for the 8600K.

    Though to be perfectly honest with you, if one was to look for true 'value' in a gaming system, you wouldn't be looking at the R7 1700 or 8600K/8700K.

    The i5 8400 (despite being non overclockable) is probably the best value 'gaming CPU' right now, and the 1600/1600X are viable alternatives with greater MT performance but poorer gaming performance.
     
  13. OJR

    OJR Member

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  14. Court Jester

    Court Jester Member

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    Ryzen was buggy enough then they go and do this:

    also whats this cold boot bug they are talking about int he article -- this is a new bug ive not read about recently?
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  15. adamsleath

    adamsleath Member

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    amd have to go hard or go home with ryzen 2.

    their financials are not good....but their asset to debt ratio has increased recently...thanks to ryzen.
     
  16. RnR

    RnR Member

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    I think the interesting discussion above (AMD vs Intel for gaming) misses a fairly big point. We know that you'll be able to upgrade your 1700 out to I believe 2019 without having to go to a new socket. Maybe even longer. Can we make the same prediction for Intel? Most of us here are enthusiasts who have no problems in assembling our own boxes, so presumably will have no problems in ripping old cpus out. For this class of buyer, the upgrade ability on the platform you are buying into could be just as important as absolute performance right now. And so it comes down to... is Ryzen fast enough right now vs the system being fast enough in the future with a smaller additional cost? Which only the purchaser can answer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017
  17. itsmydamnation

    itsmydamnation Member

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    AMD wont run a profit for a very long time, there is no point, the market doesn't expect a dividend and who wants to pay extra tax when you dont have to.

    But your just looking at one part of the market, end to end zen completes amazingly well. Have you seen the latest RR "leaks"? AMD is using two chips to compete against like 8-10 intel chips (each one of those costs 100's of millions to being to market) and doing very well across the board. Sure CL has an advantage right now, but its effectively a paper lunch for the CL parts that are "interesting".

    Next major bios revision for AM4 has completely rewritten firmware for the memory subsystem. Hopefully that will get base ryzen performance closer to optimized ryzen performance. PR early next year on 12nm (sigh marketing) will hopefully add 10% to base/boost. That happens and all of a sudden its pretty much back to where we have been for the last 8 months of only the 7700K/8700K look good.

    Then Intel bring out the 8 core coffee lake on Z370 (yet another new MB) mid next year and AMD bring 12 core Zen2 end of year on 7nm. The good news for AMD is 7nm is looking like the best process AMD has ever been on (relative to intel) and intel is delaying and cancelling 10nm chips all the time lately.

    The scary part for intel is at this rate AMD is going to beat intel to 7nm/10nm in the server market by like a year and have a core count,i/o,manufacture advantage and if intel release yet another version of haswell probably an IPC advantage as well.
     
  18. adamsleath

    adamsleath Member

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    yes. , im keen to see it. wont be buying until q2 next year only cos i dont have the cash right now...so yeah. amd will need to charge a bit more for the pr i suppose but that will be better for their bottom line. i hope they make the most of it with their cpu design. i really do appreciate having a competitor in the market.
     
  19. Court Jester

    Court Jester Member

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    I say the same thing and am called a troll

    I agree and have been saying it for a while --I fully expect zen 2 to do the AMD thing and ADDM MOAR CORES!!!!! to Zen2

    as they will simply not be able to compete against an 8 core Intel mainstream part when both have an equal core count.
     
  20. adamsleath

    adamsleath Member

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    sure go intel. that's fine for enthusiasts who want to upgrade their platforms once a year.

    but factor in cost and cheaper cpu upgrades for the am4 platform.
     

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