Analogue Mega Sg

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade' started by TheWedgie, Oct 17, 2018.

  1. nimmers

    nimmers Member

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    It's been working fine for me for a year or so. I don't particularly care really, I've got a Japanese console and it cost me $30. When I was in Japan a month ago there were literally pallets of them in some retro stores.
     
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  2. OP
    OP
    TheWedgie

    TheWedgie Insert Custom Title Here

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    Ta. Yeah think I might finally pick up a Famicom next trip up. Look at them every damn time and never buy.
     
  3. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I got a top loader last time I was there. As above, pondering an RGB mod, but also pondering not bother and just buying a MiSTer early next year.
     
  4. flain

    flain Member

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    Someone just needs to figure out how to do CRT-Royale in FPGA :)
     
  5. power

    power Member

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    you know what will happen first, a streaming provider will allow you to play everything through a browser, stb or natively through an app on your tv.
     
  6. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Commercially, sure. But that'll be laggy as hell, offer shitty emulation, and be focussed entirely on folks who want a quick hot of nostalgia, and not me.

    I'm happy for that to exist. I've made by feelings on commercial emulation well know (the more people playing old games, the better).

    But I also know that the open source community will continue to focus on authenticity and preservation "the right way", and that's where I'll continue to get my gaming satisfaction from, for a long time to come.

    These two concepts aren't incompatible, and can happily co-exist. One doesn't take effort or resources away from the other. But I know which one I'm sticking with for my own personal use.
     
  7. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    That's the beauty of the MiSTer. It's got an ARM chip to deal with all the extra stuff.

    Nobody needs to do CRT shaders in FPGA. All the need to do is some non-buffering (or at least, buffering only a couple of lines at most) effects on a neighbouring chip/GPU, and all is well.
     
  8. flain

    flain Member

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    Problem though is the ARM CPU has no access to video and the IO between ARM and FPGA might not be practical to get something to the standard of CRT-Royale going. CRT-Royale also requires some pretty serious GPU processing too (bloom effects per pixel and all), my hopes is that it can be simplified somehow :/
     
  9. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I don't know the layout of the current MiSTer IO board, but I could envisage future releases allowing some sort of loopback where the video is passed through a GPU of sorts.

    Even bloom-style effects don't have to introduce enormous amounts of lag. Think about how any one pixel affects pixels around it. If you're talking a bloom effect that affects, say, 2 (original resolution) lines above and below, then you only need a "delay" of 2 lines to process that effect. At 240p60, that's:

    1 second / 60 fps / 240 horizontal lines * 2 lines = 0.00052s = 0.52ms.

    This is also why line doublers have such little delay, as they're processing line by line, and not waiting for the entire frame to draw. There's an opportunity to do some interesting things with the image, even without a full framebuffer.

    Either way, not a big deal. Just adding variable alpha scanlines and a horizontal bilinear filter generally gives enough of a pleasing effect at this point on most of these FPGA consoles, and does so in a completely lagless way (at least until it gets to the screen itself).
     
  10. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    March 25 is the confirmed shipping date.

    Analogue show off their UI in a new video:

     
  11. flain

    flain Member

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    I see they've added the audio filter like MiSTer, i wonder if that was because they saw what MiSTer did or because they noticed a few of the games that sound really bad without it :)
     
  12. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I think the Megadrive's audio is a well known thing. Kevtris is a clever dude, and would be well aware of the differences between not only the different Yamaha chips on various models, but also the different routing/interference issues on different models, different quality in analogue filtering, etc.

    There's a lot of community attention around this. Whether it's comparisons in models (including the Nomad) or things like the Crystal Clear Audio Mod or Mega Amp, simulating all of that, I think, is an important part of offering a "premium product" like the Mega Sg. If they're selling this as the ultimate Megadrive/Genesis experience, then that's all mandatory.
     
  13. nimmers

    nimmers Member

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    I wonder how bad the MiSTer is messing up the business plan these guys were working off?

    Probably they had a plan to do one classic console per year.
     
  14. flain

    flain Member

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    I was kind of on the edge of weather or not to get one (i own a Super Nt). MiSTer is not perfect but pretty darn good (especially with the 0 lag scaler) and saves me buying a flashcart so it's hard for me to justify getting a Mega sg now.

    No doubt there will still be a lot of people who want to plug carts in will still buy one. Not to mention all the addons like 32x etc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  15. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    IMHO: MiSTer has negligible impact on Analogue.

    I think their audiences are VERY different. MiSTer is boundry-pushing, highly technologically capable individuals. Your "Jeremy Parish" types who are deeply enthusiastic about old games, but ultimately technically incompetent (no offence to Jeremy - he's hands down one of the top games journalists ever, but he's not a hardware/Linux nerd) are not interested in MiSTer, but own several Analogue consoles.

    Even folks like Frank Cifaldi who founded gamehistory.org, dumps countless games to ROM images, shamelessly promotes emulation for preservation purposes, and works for Digital Eclipse who do commercial emulated retro game offerings noted the other day on Twitter that MiSTer is well beyond the level he can keep up with.

    Analogue offer a product that is tuned and tweaked to perfection. Buy product, plug in HDMI socket, plug in cartridge, enjoy old video game. The hardest part is tracking down the game you want on eBay. It's shamelessly consumer-focused, and that's a good thing. Getting old games in the hands of people today is vitally important. And doing so means needing to cater for both ends of the spectrum of folks who want to play old cartridges.

    Chatter online shows Analogue's pre-orders for this console are MASSIVE. The overlap of people who are prepared to shell out for each of the Analogue consoles and are technically competent enough to put a MiSTer together and configure it are quite small.

    Don't forget that all of Analogue's consoles have had jailbroken firmware offerings, too. Technically you can do a great deal of what the MiSTer can do already on existing Analogue gear. But even then the number of people choosing to do that are small, and most Analogue customers stick to strictly "plug and play" setups.

    I think these products, as well as emulation, are still complementary. Retro gaming isn't a niche hobby any more. And whether people are getting in to it for nostalgia, or because are young and want to experience it for the first time, I think there's more than enough room for everyone.

    I hope Analogue make a tonne of cash from this, and go on to keep pumping out these consoles. The next obvious choice for their target market is N64 I think, but that's going to take more than Kevtris alone. So I hope they can get the funding to bring in more smart folks like him and make it work.

    What I'd actually LOVE to see next is Sega officially release cartridges again. I feel of all of the old game IP owners, they'd be the most receptive to the idea. They've got their retro collection doing the rounds already, so licensing/legal fees are all sorted. Doing three releases (SG-1000, Mark III / Master System and Megadrive/Genesis) would be amazing.
     
  16. nimmers

    nimmers Member

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    My guess would be PCE but N64 is also a good choice I guess.
     
  17. Camm

    Camm Member

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    I must admit nimmers and elvis that MiSTer killed off any want of mine to invest into Analogue's ecosystem (except for maybe an original NT). With MiSTer able to do a good chunk of the FPGA work, it reinforces that I want the consoles that I have to be original hardware (as close as FPGA can get it still isn't) rather than the potential convieniences that the Analogue devices had.
     
  18. nimmers

    nimmers Member

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    Yeah I dunno. I see the appeal of the Analogue stuff I guess and the commercial motivations but I wish the cores were open source :/
     
  19. flain

    flain Member

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    NeoGeo was doing the rumor round before the Mega Sg was announced, mostly because analogues first product was a consolized neogeo MVS in a fancy wooden case.
     
  20. nimmers

    nimmers Member

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    I wonder if they have done any dev for that? Furrtek has done heaps on the MiSTer core. Again why it's a bit sad that the cores aren't open source.
     

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