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Analogue Super NT

Discussion in 'Retro & Arcade' started by power, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. power

    power Member

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    The only review you need for this amazing machine.

    Says everything that needs to be said - wow.

     
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  2. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    A few random thoughts in my head:

    * Kevtris is a fucking legend.

    * Analogue are fucking legends.

    * I still have my doubts as to the "perfect" accuracy of these, which I talk about in our Mist FPGA thread, but I agree that this is our best option going forward as original hardware dies. Even if it's 99.999% accurate, and one tiny thing somewhere doesn't work in one game, that's still an amazing step for preservation that's independent of any given manufacturer.

    * I hope the cost of these comes down over time. The Analogue Nt Mini is crazy expensive. The Super Nt clocks in at USD$189 plus shipping, which is still a lot. Hopefully other people will make these sorts of things soon too.

    * Why the fuck is this still on third party manufacturers to do. Why aren't first party manufacturers doing this? On the cartridge side, Capcom is re-releasing SNES "Street Fighter II: World Warrior" as a one-off cart reprint later this year, but that sucks. Why not make their own, officially licensed Capcom SNES multi-cart, and offer what the Chinese pirates are doing for way cheaper?

    * The Analogue Nt (NES version) eventually got core updates to support other consoles. I'm hoping the Super Nt gets the same treatment. PC-Engine/TurboGrafx-16 and Meagdrive/Genesis cores would be amazing.

    * Boy, those "My Life In Gaming" lads make me cringe. Great video production value. But their videos are delivered at such a slow pace, and by total nerds. Does anyone in retro gaming even lift? (Well yes, Phonedork and that giant wrestling dude do). Is that bitchy? Am I an arsehole?

    * Analogue Nt had an analogue output model (RGB 15KHz). The Analogue Super Nt so far is HDMI only. I'm hoping we get some sort of analogue-out model for we CRT nerds.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  3. OP
    OP
    power

    power Member

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    yes you are, i love their presentation style and i too am a fellow nerd who "doesn't lift". are there any dudebro retro channels? (probably only cover Halo, Fifa, Madden and OG XB). the best YT channels are totally nerdy (8 bit guy, game sack, retro man cave, mjr, john hancock, nostalgia nerd and lgr to name but a few).

    I think it got missed in this video but there's an sd slot on the side for firmware updates (i'd say people will write unofficial firmware to facilitate roms). they also missed that the analogue super nt will have an adapter available for analogue output - (it was left out of the machines for good reason).

    I believe they are only interested in the console and deem that providing carts, multi-carts is already covered by others - remember they don't even provide a controller. He's a HW purist and that's what he's provided. It fits.

    i said that was the only review you need but here's another one for the extra bits like sd card and adapter.

     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
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  4. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    There are a number of retro gamers into fitness. I'm one. Phonedork is another (well respected CRT/RGB expert who was into this craze before most, and friends with both MLIG and RetroRGB). His channel is full of RGB TV/monitor reviews, mods, Neo Geo stuff, and other retro gaming stuff.

    I found another dude the other day (subscribed, will try to dig him up - edit: "Wrestling With Gaming" is his YouTube name, "Yahel" real name, well presented and edited videos) bloke who's a wrestler (as in, real wrestling, not that fake TV shit) who has a comprehensive retro gaming channel. Big strong bloke. TheGebs24 representing the ladies.

    It's time for nerds to start worrying about their health. You don't have to be a moron bro to exercise. Being a fat couch potato is not good for either your mental or physical health. And shit, if you need to move 50KG CRTs around, you're going to have to train a bit to do that safely and not blow out your back.

    Start here, make your health a priority:
    https://www.nerdfitness.com/

    Beyond that, I still don't like the MLIG presentation style. Slow and cringey, and makes it very difficult to watch for me. I get that they're literally the "101" of retro gaming for people who haven't done this for 20 years, but there's still a lot they could improve on in their painfully slow delivery. But that's way off topic, so I'll move on...

    I assumed it was not there purely for cost reasons, and the fact that the vast bulk of modern retro gamers don't play on CRT. I'm happy for it to be a add-on that can be purchased later for cost by folks like me. My issue is more that I want them to provide a zero-lag, officially compatible option, rather than me having to go and source my own shit from some dodgy Chinese retailer with an inconsistent product.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  5. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    So for those not up to speed, there was a media embargo on this up until yesterday, hence why 1001 separate reviews for this thing all appeared at the same time.

    Amusingly, today's episode of "The Retro Round Table" was a "review show review show", where they reviewed all the reviews for this thing. About an hour of them talking about other people's reviews, which is somewhat amusing, but not worthy enough of hot-linking here. They're good mates with the MLIG dudes, so that review was reviewed favourably, especially for the Kevtris interview portions, which were the bits I liked the best.

    I enjoy the few very technical videos Kevtris himself puts out. They contain a great deal more technical "under the hood" information than yet another video explaining scaling, lag, non-perfect 60Hz modes, and a bunch of other stuff we've all heard a thousand times by now.

    Outside of that, the Analogue Super Nt is all sold out now. Looks like the price point is spot on, compared to the original.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  6. BuuBox

    BuuBox Member

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    Really really tempted to get one of these. Near 100% accuracy is good enough for me, especially when you consider how much better it is than the official Super NES Classic Mini.

    I've got a NTSC-J SNES with the SuperCIC mod and component out, but even that is getting to be more and more of a pain.

    The other concern is lifespan of the cartridges themselves.
     
  7. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I'm less concerned about cartridges, thanks to flash and clone cartridges. I know that's not original kit, but for the most part that data/hardware is nearly perfectly preserved, save for a few special chips that will get covered sooner or later.

    Actual console hardware is a bigger worry, as original units are dying, and most cheap clone consoles are utter crap.

    Analogue now offer a fantastic solution with the Nt Mini covering most 8 bit consoles (via jailbreaking with Kevtris' custom firmware), and the Super Nt covering SNES for now (and likely more, as Kevtris is incapable of not tinkering :)). His attention to detail, and single-mindedness in his "right or wrong, do what the original hardware did" philosophy mean that his method of simulation is the absolute best bet we have for hardware preservation.

    My other big worry, of course, is display technology. But that's not something Analogue nor Kevtris can help with, and their efforts to work around current flat screen limitations are helpful for when the last CRT finally dies.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  8. OP
    OP
    power

    power Member

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    the review you've all been waiting for

     
  9. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I appreciate the fact that most of the reviewers are being open about what hardware they've been provided with for free. (Incredibly envious, but I appreciate their openness).

    Fantastic comparison with emulators. Byuu, the Higan author, had a lot to say about the heat software emulation was getting from a lot of lessor reviewers when the Analogue Super Nt came out of media embargo. His comments more or less boiled down to the fact that all emulation was lumped on one basket, where as clearly there are good and bad emulators, just like there are good and bad hardware solutions (say, the Analogue Super Nt vs a Retron 5).

    DF's review makes a fantastic point that the Analogue Super Nt is a perfect entry in the enthusiast space. There's still a lot of folk who swear by original hardware on CRTs or with an OSSC, but as he mentioned, that's quite the expense for a more casual gamer. Until now, either emulating via Higan on a PC, or using something like Nintendo's own SNES Mini were the only options in the middle that had a decent emphasis on quality. Thankfully Analogue have come in the middle with this, fixing what was the one glaring mistake of their original console, which was the excessively high price for extras few people wanted (metal case, analogue output, etc).

    The review also highlights a number of concerns I brought up in the "Mist console" thread. In there, I commented that the quest for perfect accuracy, even via FPGA, was a difficult one. It was insisted that FPGA was "perfect" because it was cycle-for-cycle. And yet DF's video shows at least one instance in Mega-lo-Mania of a strange artefact that appears in both Higan and the Super Nt, but not on real hardware. That emphasises my point about edge case hardware performance on real consoles by developers who pushed things way out of spec, but still managed to get a working product. That sort of stuff may never be emulated nor simulated properly. But that's a minor point I think, when we're so damned close now thanks to efforts like these.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  10. flain

    flain Member

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    Reviving an old thread as i just today bit the bullet and ordered one of these. Which then kind of got out of control and i ended up also ordering some 8bitdo wireless controllers and a SD2SNES. Suffice to say i've probably just spent a lot more on a SNES than might be considered sane.

    Whats a SD2SNES some might ask? It's a SNES cart that takes an SDCARD. No big deal i hear you say, well.. it also has an FPGA in the cart. This means the cart can support games with custom chips like DSP1. Up until recently it did not support Super FX (starfox and other games), but that changed very recently and is now in the official firmware. Additionally it didn't support SA-1 (super mario RPG and others) but now there is unofficial firmware with support in the forums that will no doubt become official soon.
     
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  11. nimmers

    nimmers Member

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    I didn't realise the SA-1 stuff was in the wild. I've given SuperFX a go and it's awesome. Never played Mario RPG, the day might be drawing near.
     
  12. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Between you and me, what you have there is the single best modern option to plan a SNES.

    I personally favour 240p RGB analogue video, but if I was looking for a 480p analogue or 1080p digital solution, the SuperNT would be my immediate go to.
     
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  13. BuuBox

    BuuBox Member

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    Jealous of that setup. Where'd you buy the SD2SNES from?
     
  14. flain

    flain Member

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    Got it from here https://krikzz.com/store/home/27-sd2snes.html

    and yes painfully expensive :shock:

    One other thing of note is the Super NT now has "jailbreak" firmware to run games off the sdcard that slots into the side. It's not really jailbreak but some unofficial firmware that is apparently written by the official dev kevtris. It's missing support for super fx, SA-1 etc but apparently does have room on the FPGA to implement support. The problem though is the super nt firmware is closed source so would need kevtris to implement it which might not ever happen as the super nt has already achieved its goal of being a SNES clone that takes original game cartridges. Rumor is kevtris has been hired by Analogue again for the next project which is either a megadrive or a neogeo FPGA system.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2018
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  15. Reaper

    Reaper Member

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  16. nimmers

    nimmers Member

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    The way I justified it was play that much worth of expensive carts.

    I played, Crono Trigger, Shadowrun, Earthbound and FF3, after that it had payed for itself.
     
  17. BuuBox

    BuuBox Member

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    The batteries in my carts are starting to fail - makes the SD2SNES very appealing.
     
  18. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Easy enough to replace them for another 7+ years of operation.
     
  19. BuuBox

    BuuBox Member

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    That's what I've been doing - but takes time and I don't like modifying original carts.
     
  20. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Repair of old equipment is absolutely necessary. There's very little of my collection that hasn't been opened up and fixed at some point.

    I get people like the idea of "pristine" or "original" hardware, but it's a physical fact that electronic components degrade over time, and need to be replaced.

    In some cases, not repairing things early enough can even lead to their total destruction. There are a number of notable cases with retro hardware where design faults lead to certain capacitors or batteries that leak corrosive material all through a system after a certain amount of time, and modifying and/or replacing them early is essential.
     

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