Any decent 2400 watt (w) Automatic Voltage Regulator (AVR)?

Discussion in 'Electronics & Electrics' started by Newbie12, Feb 21, 2018.

  1. Newbie12

    Newbie12 Member

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    I apparently(After figuring and researching up why all these things happen) need one as I have a mini-fridge connected to the same circuit line and when that turns off and on, my monitor flickers on and off, the Razer Tiamat 7.1 V2 control unit lights up by itself sometimes, and there was at one time, my computer booted on without me ever touching the turn on button!
     
  2. Privatteer

    Privatteer Member

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    The most common method to achieve what you want is a online double conversion ups, such as this MGE one. They convert down to a battery voltage in DC, then the output is converted back to a regulated 230V AC output.
    If your just protecting a computer system it is likely you don't need any where near 2400W.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Newbie12

    Newbie12 Member

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    Oh...so I'll be doubling up then? Coz already have a surge protecter, the ups(and UPS' usually have all three, AVR, surge protection and battery power for UPS) part is nice for when a brownout or black out occurs but not on my current want list, I'm just after a solo AVR.....

    I just would like to future proof, in case I do draw near 2400W of power from the wall...I actually currently have no idea(but from what the many connections I have, it does sound like a lot....hah) how much power is being drawn without checking with either a multimeter(I'll have to rig one up because I dont have anything to work with this...) or one of those specialized power watt units(them $200 or $300 ones..., the cheap $60 and lower are crap apparently and cannot tell the measurement within ±1% margin of error...) that does it for you if you plug it inline; but I do already have two monitors, a laptop, a computer, a printer, a switch, a sound system, another power board which is connected to a couple of other things...so would need an AVR that as a minimum of 8 sockets for those things...
     
  4. RobRoySyd

    RobRoySyd Member

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    How old is the mini fridge?
    It shouldn't be causing these problems or there's something a tad dodgy with the power wiring in the premises. Sure big motors starting up have caused lights to dim and chooks to stop laying but a "mini" fridge has a pretty tiny motor plus modern appliances aren't supposed to be causing big glitches in the mains. Maybe the fridge is on its last legs.
     
  5. Privatteer

    Privatteer Member

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    Or just one with one or 2 standard outlets and plug in a powerboard to it.

    With the load listed you should be well below 1000w, probably closer to 500w at most.
    While you could go for a 2400w UPS it would probably be cheaper to replace the fridge. As Robroysyd mentioned it should not be doing that. Either the fridge is faulty or there is an issue with the circuit such as a bad connection or low line voltage.
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Newbie12

    Newbie12 Member

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    It's only a few months old and still under warranty so *could* claim a replacement unit if it's really on its last legs.....would it matter if I told you guys this is actually a chest freezer converted into a fridge with a custom thermostat, maybe freezers have bigger motors?

    Well it would be preferable to get one with 8 sockets than one with only one or two and plug in a powerboard...less cables and less mess....I've already got two power boards connected to each other....and glued them onto the wall because I have no room to place them on the table...

    Ah, so what sort of big things should it be normally happening to if not a fridge? And I should get an electrician to come and check the wiring out for bad connection and or low voltage, know any recommendations, heh? If that all checks out fine, then it must be the fridge...

    Thanks for replying! ☺
     
  7. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    This is what you've asked for 1200W (biggest they make): http://www.apc.com/shop/au/en/products/Line-R-1200VA-Automatic-Voltage-Regulator/P-LE1200I#techspecs

    But it's not what you want.
    The 'fridge' is either causing a mini-brownout when it turns on - it wouldn't when turning off (are you sure it happens when switching both on and off?), and you want a UPS
    or
    it's causing EMF - typical of motors switching, in which cause you want a line isolation transformer - which a dual conversion UPS will provide anyway. line isolation transformers typically are not plug in devices, they need an sparky to come wire into your circuit.

    in short you want a UPS, or move the fridge to a different circuit - things with motors and big switching loads (welders, A/C units, air compressors, ovens, water heaters etc.) can cause transient noise on the same circuit. Best to move the sensitive things and the noisy things to different circuits, or you need to isolate them.
     
  8. RobRoySyd

    RobRoySyd Member

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    Maybe it's not the size of the motor but how it's being operated. I know for sure the motors in sealed units are pretty twitchy e.g. the 60Hz motors don't last long being run at 50Hz. In your case you've probably replaced a bulb type thermostat which has lots of hysteresis with an electronic controller with less. In theory it shouldn't matter except the period of time the motor / compressor is idle is reduced and that could affect what the pump is pumping e.g. liquid instead of gas.

    Simplest way to resolve this could be to put the freezer back to being a freezer using the original thermostat and see if the problem persists.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Newbie12

    Newbie12 Member

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    No one makes bigger than 1200W?

    oh...well I thought it was...if it's not, then when do you use an AVR if not for this particular issue?
    Dunno, will check and come to you on that...

    ...so what if you only have the one circuit? I assume if there's a single fuse that, when taken out, completely disrupts all electrical appliances, then that must mean I only have one circuit in the household.....that feeds to all the wall sockets....

    Does it matter if it's pumping liquid instead of gas?


    Alright I'll check this out...
     
  10. RobRoySyd

    RobRoySyd Member

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    Yes, if the working fluid is in the gas phase it can be compressed.
    If it's liquid it cannot be compressed and the motor driving the compressor might have a hard
    time starting to turn. That causes the motor to draw more current (if only briefly) and that causes the voltage available to other appliances on the same circuit to drop enough to cause resets etc.
     
  11. OP
    OP
    Newbie12

    Newbie12 Member

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    Actually yes, after some extensive testing, it does in fact happen when it BOTH turns on or off. So what does this mean?

    I still would like an answer for these questions, please...thanks!

    Yep, after some extensive testing and trialing, it does indeed persists even in freezer mode without the custom thermostat.

    OH okay fair enough... ☺

    Well I brought back some test results......so what's next guys?
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
  12. RobRoySyd

    RobRoySyd Member

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    It means the problem isn't caused by any "inrush" current e.g. as the motor starts.


    Having eliminating the simplest causes it's time to dig deeper. I would say first though if you want a good voltage regulator although old school the Constant Voltage Transformer (CVT) shouldn't be overlooked. I think there's one Au company still making them but only to order. That they're not a device in high demand should give a hint that your problem is exceptional and really it shouldn't be happening if everything is at it should be. Appliances today are required to not cause too much drama with the mains supply to other appliance and appliance are required to also tolerate a certain level of glitches as well.

    The next thing I'm suspecting is the premise's wiring and specifically the integrity of the protective earth. In all but double insulated appliance noise / surge suppression devices shunt the nasties to the earth connection. Thing is if the earth isn't connected to ground this can make matters worse. The glitches can get carried by the earth wire into other appliances rather than to ground at the switchboard. There's ways to test this yourself but if you have to ask how to do it you should get an electrician involved. I'd suggest getting this checked out before looking into anything "AVR".
     
  13. xc351

    xc351 Member

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    id say you shouldn't of touched the chest freezer but used a inline thermostat with a controller. I had one for my beer keg set up so much simpler. Also used one for a old bar fridge to run my fermenters in.
     
  14. DarkYendor

    DarkYendor Member

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    Have you tried without your custom thermostat? (I'm not sure what you have really, you describe it as a mini-fridge and as a 'chest freezer' - they're hardly even similar.) I have a large fridge, washer and dryer on the same circuit as my PC and Servers, with zero issues. I was even using an 1800W angle grinder on that circuit the other day, with zero problems.

    If it's causing a voltage drop, there's something wrong with your fridge or something wrong with your wiring. A small motor shouldn't be able to do that to your supply.

    There's no guarantee an AVR would help your situation, they're more to prevent a sustained brown-out, not a transient on the line. It could even make things worse - if it's trying to drag up the input voltage during a sag, then the sag suddenly turns into a spike (induction motor) you could suddenly have too much voltage. If something genuinely requires cleaner power, you're looking for a full power conditioner or a double-conversion UPS.
     
  15. OP
    OP
    Newbie12

    Newbie12 Member

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    Thanks, sorry been busy these past few weeks aye...

    Yeah I guess I'll get in a sparky to take a look at things then when I can...

    What do you mean by *Not* touching it?

    OF course...

    I thought the terms can be used interchangeably?

    Oh well from what I've read before posting this, they suggest a line conditioner such as this: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16842111281 which obviously won't work on AUS mains because it's only rated 120V input... The other option was to use clamp on ferrites on both the cables that run to the freezer/fridge and computer... Or it could be this...which is unfixable except get a bigger house, maybe live in a big ass mansion?
     
  16. RobRoySyd

    RobRoySyd Member

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  17. OP
    OP
    Newbie12

    Newbie12 Member

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    Forgot to reply back, sorry guys and just only remembered to now!

    I had a sparky come into the house and basicaly installed a dedicated power line to my chest freezer turned fridge unit(so yes to make it clearer, it is a chest freezer, just modded with a custom inline thermostat to turn it into a normal fridge since no one makes chest fridges, only chest freezers). Costed me $1400, I think, because he also apparently needed to redo the switchboard since it was too old.

    Whilst he was there he did notice one of the wires were burnt and asked if I had any problems with the lights flickering or something (I can't remember what he exactly said, it was a while ago) and I said nope. And he was like "Oh ok, hm." Dunno if that adds any relative information to the discussion?

    At first it seemed like it fixed the problem for the first few weeks but then later came back. I think it killed the mic on the Tiamat 7.1 V2 headset with mini backrush of current everytime it turns off or maybe that was just a coincident? My stereo speakers when turned on, would constantly "pop" (I should say, hear a pop sound from the speakers) whenever the fridge would turn off. No sound when it's off though.

    So this makes me believe there is some sort of backfeed whenever the chest fridge turns off and on and a dedicated power line to the unit didn't work. I'm guessing I would probably need like a 240V inline diode in the power cable somewhere so that whenever it turns on or off, backfeed is cancelled out or stopped at least by the one way diode.

    I read this from some guy using a car radiator fan for his water cooling setup and someone mentioning he shouldn't because the motor they use would backfeed nasty spikes back to the PSU and motherboard and that adding a one way diode would fix this issue. The other method would be to get a car radiator fan that doesn't have this issue and you can check this if you spin the fan blades and if slows down then stops but then oscillate back and forth a bit before finally stopping for good, that's the fan you want not the one that just slows down. I forgot what the terms were called but that was the basic gist of the conversation.

    Oh and by the way, that link is 404 now....
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2021
  18. ArmoureD

    ArmoureD Member

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    Diodes don't work like that on AC. What brand is this freezer?
     
  19. MrSquiggle

    MrSquiggle Member

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    I would think interference to devices both when switching on and off is likely to be RF bursts either radiated (would need to be 'massive') or conducted via power wiring (more likely) rather than power 'quality' such as sagging. Probably caused by 'noisy' contacts in a switch or relay in the fridge.

    Quickest/cheapest way to tackle it is to snub this transient problem is with inline 'surge' and/or 'EMI/RF' suppression. (They have different primary goals but overlap in terms of adressing your problem.)

    'Surge' suppression is frequently achieved by varistors (eg power boards with integral surge suppressors almost invariably use varistors to clip voltage peaks, sometimes they're just wired across active/neutral and sometimes across active, neutral and earth - better result but has a down side).

    'EMI/RF' suppression is simply placing capacitors (mains rated!) across active, neutral and earth to short high frequency (relative to 50Hz mains!) noise to ground thus preventing the energy infiltrating susceptible (sub-standard?) mains connected devices. Better suppressors also have series inductance to enhance their performance. This type of suppressor being built into noise generating appliances became more common place over time, your fridge may not have one fitted.

    I'd suggest try a surge suppressed power board first, it's the cheapest and easiest way to start. If that doesn't fix it try looking for a 'EMI/RF' suppressor (eBay or appliance parts suppliers) I reckon they're overly expensive for what's in them but far less than AVRs, UPSs and 'line conditioners' etc. Either an external 'inline' suppressor or, if you're up to it, retrofitting one internally.
     
  20. OP
    OP
    Newbie12

    Newbie12 Member

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    Hisense. So what would be the equivalent on AC if diodes don't work like that on AC?
    Funnily enough I already had it connected on a Belkin surge protector the whole time!
    [​IMG]

    So my next stop is to find a store that sells 'EMI/RF' suppressor boards? So I would connect the fridge to the suppressor which is then connected to the surge protector which is then conneccted to the dedicate power outlet?
     

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