anyone using a non traditional display

Discussion in 'Video Cards & Monitors' started by CybrSwami, Jan 1, 2010.

  1. CybrSwami

    CybrSwami Member

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    Hi All,

    I am thinking of building a non traditional display system.this mean i have been looking at the jDome that uses a projector and a dome in front to create a 180 degree FOV. The problem is he isn't in production and wants 2500 euro for a development model. The other option is the iDome by Paul Bourke from WA that uses a spherical mirror and a projector to create the image. again this requires a big dome setup.

    the other alternaitve is the Cave system using two projectors onto two diffierent walls. or a modified verison of the cave system using a matrox triple head 2 go or eyefinitiy to produce three walls.

    my question is this, ius anyone else here playign wiht this sort of stuff?
     
  2. SLATYE

    SLATYE SLATYE, not SLAYTE

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    Wouldn't this require a completely new GUI? Windows is really designed for a rectangular screen (or several rectangular screens) - it wouldn't map very well onto the surface of a sphere.

    The ANU does have the Wedge theatre, which has two projectors displaying onto two different walls, and that's pretty immersive. It has the advantage that it's really just two rectangular images, so standard hardware and software will work fine - but it's probably not quite as good as using a hemispherical surface.
     
  3. nexx

    nexx Member

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  4. OP
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    CybrSwami

    CybrSwami Member

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    hi guys,

    firstly thanks for the replies.

    for the wedge idea, i beleive the wedge and cave systems are idenititcal. from what i have read form the ANU research guys doign their honorus their it seems identical. i may be missing something, and am happy to be corrected.

    my question is that the cave/wedge systems both require a good distance between the projector and the screen. plus they only achiev ethe verticla visual field being filled by the imagebeing large enough to fill it. whereas the hemisphericla approach does nto need to be as large as it bends towards the person. any other thoguhts?

    i have foudn some planetarium sites talking about building domes. they do not seem that complex, but being geodesic they would not be smooth. my current thinking is to try a veyr cheap proof of concept using a paper light shade from Ikea that si a sphere. i can cut it in half and simply add a circle to reinforce the otuside edge. if anyone likes i cna keep this thread alive with updates on how it has been achieved?
     
  5. SLATYE

    SLATYE SLATYE, not SLAYTE

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    I wonder whether it'd be easier to go for a head-mounted system. A while ago DealExtreme were selling these (sold out now). You'd need extra electronics to make it work properly - a 3-axis gyroscope to figure out what direction you're facing and some way to adjust the image to fit with that direction. On the other hand, it could be pretty cheap.

    For a bit more you can get glasses that allow 3D effects (different images for each eye).

    The obvious advantage of this system is that it's small and portable. The disadvantage is that only one person can watch at a time.
     
  6. irR4tiOn4L

    irR4tiOn4L Member

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    Not sure what you meant with the gyroscope but something like Freetrack or TrackIR (headtrackers) do a fine job on a budget (and lots of support).

    Im intrigued by the ideas posted in this thread - theres also a few others that i found interesting -

    True HDR displays - currently only made by academics using projectors through LCD panels. The potential for a fuller range of light intensity levels is appealing

    Fresnel lense over CRT/LCD - directs focus further back, reducing eyestrain (supposedly) and creating the illusion of a larger screen surface much further back (around 10m apparently). Combine with several monitors and fresnel lenses and you should be able to eliminate the monitor borders while creating the illusion of a large screen far back (search youtube). Cheap but havent got round to doing it

    Stereoscopic 3D - i bought edimensional's version but although the system had potential it left a lot wanting even on a fast CRT. Not only have i not used these in ages, annoyingly they are now not even properly supported by Nvidia's 3d drivers (presumably because they want you to buy theirs).


    Ultimately cost and lack of support seem to kill anything beyond multiple monitor setups.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2010
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    CybrSwami

    CybrSwami Member

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    ok guys,

    here for a quick update. i bought the sphere paper light shade from ikea today. i will try cutting it into a dome and see what the results are. the other option is getting something like a hoola hoop with clear plastic strips to form the dome. then simply lay some material on top.

    i was also talking with As. Pro Paul Bourke who indicated that a dome smaller than 2 metres may have visual problems. so that may be another limitation of going this way.
     
  8. Rogue-X

    Rogue-X Member

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    Just curious is it a parabolic dome or a non parabolic dome.
     
  9. irR4tiOn4L

    irR4tiOn4L Member

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    This idea sounds truly awesome. But would games support this kind of screen?
     
  10. OP
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    CybrSwami

    CybrSwami Member

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    the screen shoudl be supported as long as the FOV can be changed in the game without loosing some part of the vertical scren. I have been using matrox triple head 2 go now for about 4 years. most games that i play do fine with it, but some do loose some of the vertical image. others have issues with the gui not moving back to the centre. that may also occur here when the FOV approaches 180. that is where some mods may be needed to overoem the problem. i know someone coded a cave systme for soruce engine and there is the oriignal cave ut which are basically at their core camera mods.

    so today i should be trying otu the dome i bought from ikea and will post results. i also have three projectors so could try a massive matrox triple head 2 go setup. will post resutls as they happen.

    cheers
     
  11. OP
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    CybrSwami

    CybrSwami Member

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    ok an update on the progress.

    I tried a dome today using an acer x10 LED projector. A few things i learned. firstly this is definitely possible. secondly, Paul Bourke was right that when your dome gets under about 2metres it doesn't quite work. it seemed to me that the dome surface needs to be at least arms length away from my face. otherwise my eyes could not focus on the surface properly. this would add eyestrain and eventually possibly create headaches.. all bad things from a user point of view.

    my next step is to see how big the dome i was using is compared to a 2metre one. then see if i can find plans online for a dome.
     
  12. OP
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    CybrSwami

    CybrSwami Member

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    ok progress has been made. the light shade from ikea does work. it is an odd feeling being inside a light shade with the image beign projected onto the outside of it. this design is similar to the jDome that is being invented in europe. the odd thing is tat by having your hands out of your field of view means you really need to have a good grasp fo the keys you need to use or use an alternative input such as a nostromo speedpad.

    i will continue to examine these possibilities. i did notice that the dome was more immersive than the triple head 2 go setup. however, i also returned to using the triple head 2 go as many games put important informaiton aroudn the outside of the screen. the problem wiht teh dome system is you do not get the edge of the image on the dome if in the corners. the only edge is on the top and bottom. this makes seeing the HUD difficult.
     
  13. DoCsIs

    DoCsIs Member

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  14. Potatos_69

    Potatos_69 Member

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    agrees with this. PICS OR BANZ! :)
     
  15. Oktavius

    Oktavius Member

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    I like. Im an immersion geek and have a few different 3d systems and a few plans in the pipe just no time or space to get them going.

    I have a low end 64x480 3d hmd and a gyration mouse for head tracking to go with the wiimote. For the few secons i had the mouse on my head and stood up while playing glqake 1 it was an amazing experience.

    I also have a 50 inch samsung plasma that does 3d at 720p checkerboard.

    I have also used a 20inch fresnel lens over my 19 inch lcd. That kicks ass.

    I have a sharp dlp projector which can page flip at 85hz with shutter glasses. I plan to use this to rear project onto a white vinyl shower curtain. Havent tried it yet but i want to set up a 1.5m wide screen that cured forwards at the side to increase the field of view an keep the size down.

    So many toys, not enough time :(

    Ts, i like the jdome idea a lot and have not been able to come up with a home brew solution. keep up teh work and give us some pics.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2010
  16. OP
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    CybrSwami

    CybrSwami Member

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    jdome home brew is easy. i will post some photos in next post. basically it is a light shade form ikea that can achieve a similar job. this will give you the experience of the dome. however, i will say this that is not the solution i have gone with. the biggest problem with a dome setup i ahve found so far is the missing information.

    the missing information is mostly things form the HUD. i thought that information was not being processed much by me when playing. i found when using the dome it was the information from the HUD that i was wanting. how much ammo i had left, my health, mana points, spells available etc. notice these are form MMO and FPS not RTS. i would imagine the problem would be even worse in a RTS. the solution that i notice the WoW screen shots from the jdome use is to put the info bars in the centre bottom. this doesn't seem ideal to me. firstly the dome at the extremes is distorted. secondly, the information is something you just need to glance at then back to the action. thirdly, by being placed on the ore distorted section ti takes you longer to process the information.

    to those who think this thread should be banned for not having photos, i say if you don't like it don't read it. I am more than happy to put photos in this thread, but i find the manner that the suggestion has been made is less than polite.
     
  17. salem_christ

    salem_christ Member

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    i'm pretty sure they're just kidding with the ban threats. they, like me, are probably having a hard time picturing what the heck it is you're doing though.

    for the dome/lampshade thing, are you putting your face inside the dome (like you would put your face in a bowl of water, but upright), and then from in front of you somewhere you have a projector throwing an image towards you on to the back of the dome, so that you see it from the inside as an image?
     
  18. OP
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    CybrSwami

    CybrSwami Member

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    salem, that is right. the lampshade is cut a bit like a large helmet to get the dome facing the projector while your head is inside it. this is the same basic principle that the jDome uses. they are just using a slightly bigger dome. all the same problems and benefits would be present as they are fundamentally the same.
     
  19. Oktavius

    Oktavius Member

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    What is the diametre of the lamp shade you are using? I can see how that is not ideal.

    Your brain knows objects are close by how much your eyes need to converge to focus on them. Thats why fresnel lenses make thing look huge.
    Small thing up close will still seem small.
     

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