Apple locks third party repairers out.

Discussion in 'Apple Desktop Hardware/Software' started by power, Oct 5, 2018.

  1. power

    power Member

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    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...pro-software-locks-prevent-independent-repair

    Apple really don't want you fixing your own shit.

    oh and it's not some local bit of software you just run, it connects to Apple's servers so would need to be cracked/hacked to work.

    upload_2018-10-5_11-5-9.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
  2. Hater

    Hater Member

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    Have fun in 8 years time when these computers are "vintage" and Apple won't touch them no more.

    Probably just before the flash storage expires.

    Nice.
     
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  3. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    Makes sense tbh - It's likely the only way to verify secure boot status and encryption keys in the T2 chip aren't compromised.
    HP/Dell etc will be going the same way before long now as Microsoft continues development on autopilot.
     
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  4. caspian

    caspian Member

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    everyone wants security. nobody wants inconvenience.
     
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  5. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    Geeks like OP say “Apple blocks hardware repair”
    Enterprise security say “Apple enables the strongest security standards in desktop hardware”
    Average consumer says “what are you talking about I don’t give a shit I never would have repaired my Mac at a third party anyway”

    Security is reason the iPhone is the default choice in enterprise, and Apple are trying to replicate their mobile technology into their desktop platform. (Secure Enclave, secure boot etc etc)
     
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  6. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    There isn't a single aspect of this that's related to either security or convenience.

    Security is fine just the way it is until the Government scares people into believing that encryption is somehow a bad thing because they can't do their jobs properly as public servants. Furthermore, there's nothing 'convenient' about the Apple store. Apple can't actually repair logic boards, so when that hardware is classed as 'vintage' by Apple (which isn't as long as people may assume) it's quite possibly going to be a case of forced obsolescence as independent repairers won't have access to the software needed to activate the machine after the repair.
     
  7. Zee

    Zee Member

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    I'm not entirely convinced this is legal in Aus.

    Z...
     
  8. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    Yes there is, what it looks to me like Apple are doing here is closing the hardware encryption loop.

    Now their newer devices do direct to storage hardware encryption with keys generated in the T2 chip, effectively what this does is stops anyone transplanting SSDs and/or T2 chips to or from other Mac hardware - ensuring encrypted data on a T2 equipped Mac is completely unrecoverable under any circumstances. This means governments and hackers targeting Apples latest growth market: Enterprise. Enterprise that to my understanding is choosing iPhone 9/10 times in part because of this exact scenario.

    I’m sure they’ve done a cost benefit analysis on security vs repairability and written it off as inconsequential, and they’re probably right. It’s not like they’ve supported third party repairs for the past 20 years anyway, they certainly haven’t ever in my recollection supplied Apple parts outside their authorised repairers.

    The reality is actual non approved third party repairs are such an outrageously tiny market that it won’t matter, and I bet direct repairs to motherboards like capacitor replacement etc won’t be effected anyway. (Total replacements will be impossible no doubt)
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
  9. melatonin

    melatonin Member

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    I work as a sysadmin at a school.

    We have a fleet of macbooks, eventually everything dies, currently but we can Frankenstein macbooks back to life. MBP2012 and MBPR2015s

    So if a mainboard goes on a laptop and I have one with a shattered screen, then I put the parts together, school doesn't need to fork out for a new macbook.

    So I can see the point of not allowing genuine parts but when they are out of warranty/EOL what's the difference?

    Also will I still be able to Frankenstein machines together or will this be considered un-authorised?
     
  10. giles666

    giles666 Member

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    Why would anyone go to a third party repairer that hasn't been approved and authorised by Apple. That's just asking for trouble.

    The reason for this is to close the encryption loop with the T2 chip. The arguments about obsolescence are ridiculous, Apple supports its old hardware better than any other vendor. By the time Apple makes hardware as obsolete it is well past the point and reasonable person would want to be using it.
     
  11. melatonin

    melatonin Member

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    My example above would be one reason...

    We just retired our fleet of MBP2010s three months ago, still very useful in there old age but that's another argument.
     
  12. giles666

    giles666 Member

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    You know you can enter into a service contract with Apple and they will provide onsite repair and replacement? Might be a better option for you.
     
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  13. Copie

    Copie Member

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    And from what ive heard its actually very cost effective especially for education accounts.
     
  14. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Anyone worth their paycheque knows "security through obscurity" is not a thing. The split second this is hacked/jailbroken (and it will be), it's all invalidated.

    This IS NOT security. The only inconvenience is on third party repairers like Louis Rossman who have been extremely vocal in Apple's anti-competitive, anti-consumer stance.

    And I agree with him. Your right to repair is important. Even if you don't/can't repair things yourself, you should be free to choose anyone capable of doing so. If you value that right, stop buying Apple products immediately.
     
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  15. caspian

    caspian Member

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    yep. my wife does online services and credit card fraud for a major bank. to expand on your post further up, Mr Average Consumer gets his credentials ripped off at a disgustingly frequent rate, and used to commit all sorts of online fraud that ultimately you and I as the consumer end up paying for. this helps stop that occurring.

    I doubt it, non-intelligent components like that would not be detectable.
     
  16. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    How does a keyboard or trackpad fit into this encryption model? If absolute encryption is that important regarding enterprise, make it an option for enterprise gear - This is consumer grade gear. Furthermore, if the Government get their way and insert back doors in all forms of encryption, what's the point?

    The fact is, at ~6 years of age these Mac's are still going to be a fairly capable bit of gear and people are still going to be using them, when the logic board fails and Apple don't supply them any more as the device is classed as vintage and Apple are too hopeless to actually repair logic boards, what are users going to do? What happens to the data stored on that heavily encrypted soldered SSD? And is it really cost effective to send your 6yo Mac to Apple for repair or is it far more logical to take it to an independent repairer?

    Apple are absolute technical twats, I wouldn't trust them to repair anything.

    You people are supposed to be technically inclined. Anyone with an ounce of technical aptitude can surely see what Apple's real motive is here? It's a computing device, it's not rocket science, it's not that hard to fix.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
  17. caspian

    caspian Member

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    this isn't security through obscurity though. it's hardware protection, little different to Bitlocker.

    hacks are an unfortunate fact of life sometimes. if Joe Average is dumb enough to defeat the security his device offers by jailbreaking, anything that happens is on his head.

    I have little time for the "right to repair" idea because you have every right to have your device repaired - by the approved repairer. and nobody is forced to buy an Apple product if they don't want to. if they do, they need to understand they're not just buying the physical object, but a managed environment that comes along with it, which includes stuff like restrictions on what can be installed on it, and how it can be repaired, so as to maintain the secure environment the product offers.

    if Joe doesn't like it - he can buy an Android phone. I doubt Apple will miss him, he's not their target market.
     
  18. flu!d

    flu!d Ubuntu Mate 16.04 LTS

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    This is quite possibly the most right wing capitalist thing you've ever posted on OCAU, what a load of rubbish.
     
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  19. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Citation required.

    People aren't having their banking details stolen because crooks are breaking crypto. They're having banking details stolen because they blab their entire personal lives on Facebook, and people ring up their bank and get their passwords changed using trivial "authentication" mechanisms like the account number (dumpster dive to find that), your date of birth and mother's maiden name (on Facebook for all to see).

    Apple locking out third party repairers doesn't do shit for identity fraud. I have several friends who work as detectives in the Queensland Police force cyber crimes. On the daily they have people crying to them that their phones were stolen, and they're worried about identity theft. You know what happens to 100% of those phones? They're hocked for cash, which in turn is spent on drugs. Hollywood style "hack the smartphone" doesn't happen at the individual crime level. Fuck me, even all these celebrities with their super secure iPhones had their nudes leaked because they chose shitty passwords on their iCloud backups. Nobody needed access to the hardware there.

    For the second time today, I'll link to Ye Olde XKCD: https://m.xkcd.com/538/ . Apple's new lockout chip will have exactly 0% of a change on major bank fraud, when the weakness is stupid people, not weak hardware security.

    It's entirely different to BitLocker. With BitLocker, if some numpty user locks themselves out of their device, I can factory wipe the thing. Likewise any third party repairer can wipe it, rebuild the OS, and hand it back to the user (or onsell it).

    Apple's method bricks the device. Entirely anti-consumer, anti-repairer. Apple have been searching for ways for quite some time to lock out third party repairers/upgraders in the US. This'll do it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2018
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  20. [KEi]SoVeReIgN

    [KEi]SoVeReIgN Member

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    You don't understand the technology so you make assumptions, infer conclusions from those incorrect assumptions then go on an impassioned ill informed rant. (And you seem irrationally angry at Apple - This is strange, perhaps seek professional help)
    You and others like you here are the reason I don't bother visiting this cesspool of a subforum anymore.

    Without checking, I'm almost certain the keyboard/trackpad/camera and a few other pieces are connected through the T2, hence the joint replacement on the MacBook Pro, but not the iMac Pro.

    What a ridiculous assertion - Do you say the same thing about every security measure ever conceived? What's all invalidated? The hardware encryption? The secure enclave? secure boot? What specifically, because I don't think you know as much as you think you know, or you haven't thought it through.
     

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