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Argument about data cabling.

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by A Gringo, Jul 2, 2021.

  1. Symon

    Symon Castigat ridendo mores

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    This, so much this. Part of being a qualified professional is that you keep up to date with the latest standards. This clown clearly hasn't, and as such his advice means squat.

    It would have to be pretty damn dodgy for them to report it, ie. totally unsafe that is actually putting someone in danger. Even then most would tell you about it, and give you a quote to fix it. Some would quietly just fix it without even telling you.

    The problem is that it is difficult to explain to most people that just because a task is simple to do, it is the knowledge of WHY it is done that way that is the most important.
     
  2. Mjölnir

    Mjölnir Member

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    Even though a security licence might not be a requirement in NSW for this, Open Cabler Registration still technically is required anywhere in Australia, as it is either structured or coaxial cabling connected to a device that's capable of connecting to a carrier network. The cabler is also required to have trained on the relevant competencies (formerly known as endorsements) for whatever technology that CCTV system uses (structured or coax).

    I love this... Cablers in various industries, like most technical occupations, are on both national and state skills shortage lists. Easy to walk out of a job one day and then walk into a new job the next day.
     
  3. mjunek

    mjunek Member

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    By that rationale, my speaker cabling running under the house needs to be done by a licensed cabler, as my AVR has an ethernet port on it and is capable of connecting to a telco network.
    My alarm system is not currently "capable" of connecting to a telco network, but with a small expansion/dialler board, it suddenly is.
    TV coax which sits on the fence - as it is just for an antenna signal; but now has the capability of someone plugging a HFC connection through it.

    So where does this start and end?

    I'm not trying to argue that there isn't a need for registration - there are definite reasons, circumstances where it definitely applies - for safety, technical and quality reasons; however in a residential market, there are way too many grey areas with the now inter-connected world.

    I think there needs to be a clear demarcation point - for example, the network vs consumer side of an NTD. (Which would have almost worked with NBN if it weren't for FTTN where there is a customer supplied unit in the mix).
     
  4. Mjölnir

    Mjölnir Member

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    Totally agree and I think most cablers agree that the demarcation needs to be clearer and that the grey areas are BS. This is something that the regulators settled on. I think maybe only the authors of the standard know why it was written that way. Has been like that for several successive versions of the Standard. See Clause 2.1 of S009:2020. However, there are areas that are made clear by ACMA, Registrars and RTO's that require Open Cabler Registration and Competencies - including CCTV and alarm cabling. What sort of alarm control panel do you have that doesn't have a phone socket or terminals to hard-wire a phone line directly to the control panel?
     
  5. ArmoureD

    ArmoureD Member

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    Just remember that the reason why our utilities and homes do not resemble that of a third world shack is due to our stringent standards and need for qualifications.

    Take a look at the wiring horrors you will see in Asia, africa etc.

    Nothing further to say.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2021
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  6. mjunek

    mjunek Member

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    It was one from Jaycar quite a number of years back.
    It had an optional telephone module board that could be plugged into it; saved a hundred bucks by not putting in.
     
  7. caspian

    caspian Member

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    some people might not like the culture of North America, but they're allowed to do their own electrical work without much issue, and they're definitely not living in shacks.
     
  8. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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    I'd be curious to see what the electrical injury/death rates are in comparison to somewhere like Australia.
     
  9. rickbishop

    rickbishop Member

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    This is almost going to be comedic.

    Fatal electrocution in adults--a 30-year study - PubMed (nih.gov)

    Australia, in 30 years, had 96 deaths from electrocution. That INCLUDES suicides, homicides, and being struck by lightning.

    America on the other hand... well, read for yourself...

    Died as a result of Accidental Electrocution (geni.com)
     
  10. leighr

    leighr Member

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    That's 96 over 30 years who were >16 years old and autopsied at Forensic Science SA, Adelaide, Australia. It's not all electrocutions for the country, nor is it likely to be all that were electrocuted in Adelaide during that time, only the ones that were autopsied.
     
  11. caspian

    caspian Member

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    there are 333 million people in the US, compared to 25.5 million in Australia (using data from https://www.worldometers.info/). that's a ratio of 13:1.

    from the article quoted, the US's 400 deaths had about 20% attributable to wiring faults. that's 80/yr. now divide that by the population size ratio and we're down to 6/yr. that's a whopping THREE more per year than Australian figures.

    comedic indeed.

    don't tell me the number is double or I will laugh at you.
     
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  12. Matthew kane

    Matthew kane Member

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  13. rickbishop

    rickbishop Member

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    Apologies for the earlier link, I totally skimmed over the SA bit.

    However, a better source has been obtained.

    Electrical-fatality-benchmarking-2015-2016.pdf (erac.gov.au)

    For a total of 12 electrocutions in 2015 in both Australia and NZ. Total. Not just consumer appliances and household wiring, but TOTAL NUMBER.

    Combined population of Australia and NZ is about 30 million. So the US is 11 times the population of Australia and NZ, so arguable they should have a TOTAL number of 132 per year.

    Not 400.

    What's that caspian ?

    Incidently, if I'm reading the 2015 australian data correctly, there was only 1 death from the power lines, all the rest were from inside the home that someone unauthorised had messed with the fixed or appliance cabling.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2021
  14. hippyhippy

    hippyhippy Member

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    just run your own network cables... im building an extension and im doing it myself. i doubt anyone has ever died laying network cable....


    not all US states allow you to do your own cabling ... only some.
     
  15. caspian

    caspian Member

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    here's someone wiring a whole net 240v circuit back to their breaker panel. legal in Canada. that's another 38 million people.



    what it is is a statistical irrelevance that demonstrates my point. but hey, dig the hole as deep as you like.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2021
  16. rickbishop

    rickbishop Member

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    It's a statistical irrelevance that in the US it's FOUR TIMES more likely PER CAPITA that you'll accidently electrocute yourself... ? :rolleyes:
     
  17. mjunek

    mjunek Member

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    But...but...It's double :)

    /I'll see myself out :)
     
  18. caspian

    caspian Member

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    still a statistical irrelevance when you consider the actual risk. I regularly have this argument with a certain dumb manager at work who gets very excited that something that happened four times last week DOUBLED!!!! to eight this week, so apparently we should all panic. :rolleyes: I then point out that the expected rate of occurrence is in the range of tens of thousands per year, so my carefactor at something going from one to two drops in the ocean is commensurately nil. the same applies here.

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Matthew kane

    Matthew kane Member

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    Saving that gif right now.
     
  20. bucket23

    bucket23 Member

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    The rules are that if it connects to a carrier network or is intended to connect to a carriers network. It doesn't matter if it can connect if said connection never connects nor is ever intended to connect to a carriers network.
    Your speaker cables are fine as they don't carry traffic over them that goes to a carrier network.
     
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