ARM Windows... an expensive experimennt.

More a placeholder. With sound mind, I've just purchased an ARM-based Windows laptop.
For light duties, but it will be MOST interesting. Watch this space.

 

FTR I've been following ARM since Acorn Archimedes days, so it's been a long time coming. The processor-agnostic days of Windows NT are long behind us, but this will be an interesting modern take of a long, perhaps ideological view on things.

Of course the eventual fate has little to do with architecture (Think transputer, Mips), and far more about implementation this will be an interesting experiment. Apple seem to have the inside running on translation layers, but this laptop will largely be running native. Time will tell, as shall I. The last processor I natively coded for (6502) had ONE register, 2 index registers but an hilariously tiny IPC for the time. Let's see what ARM can do with the big boys.

 

They've been out in the wild for some time man, its not really treading new ground

 

Of course. And I remember when Windows NT was designed to be platform agnostic, running on intel, Itanium and mips (OLD MIPS (2000/3000, back in the 90's).
But outside of Microsoft surface there really hasn't been much credible in the ARM Windows space - and with Intel's vice-like grip weakening, moving to a processor who's instruction set isn't just an hardware emulated API for a totally different architecture under the hood appeals to me.\
I also feel it's about the right time to dive into the ARM desktop. This will be my office machine: the laptop has laughable gaming capability, but that doesn't really matter. I WILL try firing up World of Warcraft, though which has a native ARM client, just for shits and giggles. Gotta say my main rig, a 14Gen 4070 12gig NVIDIA rig is my gaming rig of choice.
ALSO,
a 24gig DDR5 8core 3Ghz risc machine, with 2560x1600 15" OLED display, 16+ hours battery life, 2 NVME4 drive slots, for $1100 bucks is decent value.

And it's just an experiment. If it sucks balls I'll sell it on: a cheap experiment (in spite of my thread title!)

I suspect it'll mostly come down to how well Microsoft's intel emulation layer behaves. All my main applications already have native ARM variants. It'll be the edge cases (like EasyDVD for DVD ripping) that will prove the most interesting. Oh, and I'll be turning off all that AI bullshit.

Delivery is still a week or so away, and finding the time to look at it longer still. I may be retired, but my wife's condition leaves me with little time to play..

 

Delay in delivery: apparently the machine has been built (it was a custom build), but failed in (soak) testing, and is being rebuilt.. Doesn't auger well...

 

good in theory, crap in practice

 

Fortunately this machine is of no critical import to me. That said I'm >><< close to cancelling the order. This is an experiment (although the plan is for it to become my daily office driver if it pans out) Any further delays and it's a cancel, or chargeback, and refusal of acceptance of delivery. Annoying, as I'm genuinely curious about how Windows runs on a non-Intel ISA (Windows NT was originally designed to be processor-agnostic), and this particular machine showed the most promise.
I've been very interested in the strengths and weaknesses of differing ISA's and architectures in processors since the early 80's - seriously - and I've seen some astonishing leaps over the years. The most stunning has been me playing with MIPS3000 machines, which in the real world left Intel in the dust: they were THAT good. That thing cranked out close to 1 instruction per cycle back in 1988, and tore the snot out of any task at the time. OK, so 1IPC isn't so flash now, but we're talking nearly 40 years ago (Intel back then couldn't even manage 2!)
So the chance to play with a modern multi-core processor which still has RISC at it's heart,in it's DNA and still presentin it's ISA, (Unlike Intel, which runs a RISC core, but a translation layer to it's CISC instruction set) - is something I just can't pass up. Who knows, I might even swap out the SSD (possible on this one, it's just a removable NvME) and drop Linux on it)
Always knew the 6502 was superior to the 4bit Z80
My annoyance with Lenovo, however is real.

Anyway, to the Email....
--------------
Dear [Callan] ,

I hope this message finds you well.

We’re reaching out to provide an update on your recent order for the (Order #: [xxxxxxxxx]).

We would like to inform you that there is an unexpected delay in the shipment of your order. We understand how important this purchase is to you, and we sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

We are actively working with our logistics teams to expedite the delivery process, and we currently expect your order to be ready to ship by [9/16/2025]. Please be assured that your order is being prioritized, and it may be shipped sooner than expected.

Thank you once again for your understanding and for choosing Lenovo. Should you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to us via https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/contact/order-support/

Warm regards,
Lenovo eCommerce Regional Order Support Team

 

That's the 16th month of the year called again? Neveruary?

 

I hope it didn't cost you an ARM and a leg...



JSmith

 

Ya. My cynicism is on high alert, and patience is short.

 

Thus endeth the experiment.





6-10 days - and it likely wasn't going to leave the Philippines for 20. Fuck that, if for no other reason that such poor service cannot be tolerated, or rewarded. Shame, I was really looking forwards to having a play with the device...DOubly annoying as my little Flexpad I use in the living room has been an absolute gem, and only took about 4 days from order to delivery.

Pathetic.

 

Save a few bucks and still have a crack mate? I don't think it's an apples/apples compared to your initial specs, but it's $200 in your wallet and your curiosity satisfied?

Lenovo alternative.

 

I'm after that sweet, sweet OLED display. Once you've gone OLED, you can never go back. But thanks for the suggestion. All past experience with Lenovo is that their LCD screens are shit, save those on the highest end models.

 

Understood. Too scared to go there yet, haven't had one... For that exact reason!

 

Learning expensive tastes in wine and spirits has the same problem

 

you dodged a bullet, Microsoft has tried pretty hard to get it going and the latest push is one of the biggest goes they've had at it but it always feels like they never 100% commit.

just remember if it was gonna take off it would have by now, they shipped their first ARM windows called Windows RT more than a decade ago.....

 

They're not as bad as Google, but they do have form. Worst case I drop Linux on one, or sell it.

Collecting one of these tomorrow. I'm old enough, and in enough of a position where I can _occasionally_ indulge my intellectual curiosity in exploring things such as this on a whim, as long as I don't make a habit of it. We shall see.

Callan

 

Agree. I experimented with the ARM based Windows RT Surface back in 2012. It was ok for native software and terrible otherwise. Ended up going for the X86 version instead and used it for years.

ARM is great but there’s never been any real upside to porting Windows over to it, and a lot of downsides. Sure you’ve got better battery efficiency, but intel lunar lake has really narrowed that gap. There’s an enormous library of x86 software that will never be ported (i.e. most of steam). You’ve got two massive x86 CPU manufacturers competing with high performance designs.

The biggest issue is that ARM on Windows only has one CPU manufacturer (Qualcomm). It’s taken decades of Intel:AMD competition to get us where we are in the x86 space. Qualcomm won’t be interested in keeping up in that race.

I’m more interested in where RISC V goes, and if it ever runs Windows.

 

Did you consider the Microsoft Surface Pro (Snapdragon ARM) with the OLED screen? No custom order required, plenty in stock at major retailers like JB Hifi

 

No I did not. The Alloy-ceramic case of the Asus one intrigued me, and now that I have it in my hands I'm bloody impressed. Ridiculously light, and the body is far more rigid than I would expect for such a thin form factor. Here it is on my desk, fresh booted. And yes the display is gorgeous. Keyboard is light, but with good travel, and I can type very quickly on it. I don't like it's slight tendency for keyboard boounce, though.....



Initial impressions are that it's quite snappy, particularly when running native ARM, and very quiet. I came across my first incompatible program: Ookla's speedtest fires up, but only gives me a blank screen. Time will tell, and I have expectation that compatibility will improve as time goes by. Apple did pretty well with parallels, so there's hope. I suspect the AI stuff that Qualcomm does so well has been a bit of an impetus to get compatibility up there, but time will tell. I've yet to drop my old copy of office on it (I don't do subscription software like Office 365)

But these 12 cores seem to be doing their job nicely. Let's see how I feel in a few days, eh I have yet to decrapify this, remove disk encryption and whathaveyou. And there is one downgrade from the Lenovo that I'm disappointed: no fingerprint reader. Sure there's Windows Hello, but I'm very leery of that.

Still, 32Gig RAM is nice, giving me heaps of headroom (if I ever run Chrome I guess I might need it!!!!