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Discussion in 'Overclocking & Hardware' started by Haillion, Jul 19, 2007.

  1. Haillion

    Haillion Member

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    pgiypgpug=-9=[]h]oi]i
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
  2. HrdwrBoB

    HrdwrBoB Member

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    no it does not
     
  3. Simonk83

    Simonk83 Member

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    Best thread ever :) :thumbup:
     
  4. richielah

    richielah Member

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    lol great question!
    subscribed :)
     
  5. Meatbix

    Meatbix Member

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    lol I was once asked by a customer if an iPod weighed more when it was full of music. I told him with as strraight a face as possible that that depended on how heavy the music was, and that an iPod full of death metal would be heavier than one full of R&B.
     
  6. Chocco

    Chocco Member

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    ROFL!

    Get a blank cd...weight it then fill it with data and burn it off then weight it again...

    Be sure your standing back when you see the results!
     
  7. Zzapped

    Zzapped Member

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    I can see this turning into another one of those threads like the one about the aircraft on a treadmill, would it take off or not

    Cheers

    Z
     
  8. Luke212

    Luke212 Member

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    yes it does. i adds the weight of electrons for the stored charge on the media.

    electron mass = 9.10938188 × 10-31 kilograms
     
  9. WaLLLY

    WaLLLY Member

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    So thats why my case is so fkn heavy, downloading everynight etc. No wonder everytime i go to move it or pick it up its heavier. :Paranoid:
     
  10. SLATYE

    SLATYE SLATYE, not SLAYTE

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    It depends exactly what you're using to store data, and how sensitive your measurements are.

    In DRAM, data is stored in a capacitor (as electrical charge). When there is data stored in the RAM (a sequence of ones and zeros) there will be more electrons present than when there's no data (straight zeros). Electrons do weigh something, although not very much.

    I think the same applies to SRAM. It won't apply to flash RAM or HDDs, because they store data just by changing something which was already present.

    EDIT: Actually, it seems that flash RAM does work by storing extra electrons. However, a HDD does not (it just flips the magnetic field from pointing one way to pointing the other way; nothing is added).
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2007
  11. HrdwrBoB

    HrdwrBoB Member

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    the weight would change more if you went up a flight of stairs!
    edit: or more specifically for heavier, down a flight of stairs
     
  12. Meatbix

    Meatbix Member

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    so will a normal set of kitchen scales show the difference or do I need those super-sensitive drug-dealer's scales? :lol:
     
  13. tzehinyip

    tzehinyip Member

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    i think SLATYE's edit is correct. the applied magnetic field on a specific section in magnetic media(ferromagnets??) in HDDs changes the pointing direction of the 'little pieces' that make up the media. saturation direction determines 0 or 1.

    well that's what i remember from physics :p
     
  14. NanoDuke

    NanoDuke Member

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    This was asked in the latedt Atomic magazine in the I/O section.

    HDDs store data in magnetic regions. Similar to magnetic tapes, the grains are alligned in different orientations. The medium you're writing on doesn't change, just spins around.
    The example in Atomic was, imagine you have a line of coins all Heads side up. Then you go along and flip some to the Tails side. Now you have your binary system of 10011101010101 etc. You haven't added or subtracted any masses.

    The mass of an electron is 9.10938188 × 10^-31 kilograms So even with the most expensive balances, you still won't be able to notice a difference.

    And I think the capacitor analysis is incorrect. When discharged, you have electrons on either side, creating a neutral charge. When you charge the capacitor, the electrons migrate to one plate. You haven't added anything either. Just moved them to a different location.
     
  15. BurningFeetMan

    BurningFeetMan Member

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    [​IMG]
    *googlepages image... it'll show in about a week.
     
  16. Rubberband

    Rubberband Member

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    So when the disk spins, it's would spin faster or slower, due to the alignment of the grains, depending on the data you have on there?

    If I put many drives into my case and filled them with data, they could theoretically make my case wobble over! :wired: But then it would depend on the weight of the drives, so maybe they have a drive mass/spin coefficient?

    Must be why they put the little legs on the case...clever people.

    If we all uncovered our drives, we'd have a butterfly effect going on of huge proportions! We should inform the Pentagon, we could be killed by the full-of-data effect!!!
     
  17. Pazu

    Pazu Member

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    On the other hand, would a cd/dvd lose weight when data is stored? These optical devices work by burning little pits into them. So, if you are going to have lots and lots of full harddrives, perhaps you need to have a few full dvds spinning in the computer to offset the wobble effect?
     
  18. HrdwrBoB

    HrdwrBoB Member

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    walking drives:
    An occasional failure mode of magnetic-disk drives back in the days when they were huge, clunky washing machines. Those old dinosaur parts carried terrific angular momentum; the combination of a misaligned spindle or worn bearings and stick-slip interactions with the floor could cause them to ‘walk’ across a room, lurching alternate corners forward a couple of millimeters at a time. There is a legend about a drive that walked over to the only door to the computer room and jammed it shut; the staff had to cut a hole in the wall in order to get at it! Walking could also be induced by certain patterns of drive access (a fast seek across the whole width of the disk, followed by a slow seek in the other direction). Some bands of old-time hackers figured out how to induce disk-accessing patterns that would do this to particular drive models and held disk-drive races.

    From http://www.answers.com/topic/walking-drives-computer-jargon?cat=technology
     
  19. SLATYE

    SLATYE SLATYE, not SLAYTE

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    Writeable optical disks don't actually get pits burnt in them. They just have a dye which changes colour when heated up by a laser. Only mass-produced CDs/DVDs actually have real pits in the data layer.

    Okay. I wasn't sure whether they worked just by adding electrons to one side or moving electrons from one side to the other (bigger electric field for any given number of electrons, but possibly more complex to build).
     
  20. LINUX

    LINUX Member

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    Enter Special Relativity: Specifically the idea that mass and energy and interchangeable.

    Although basically impossible to measure, and object with more energy/potential energy does in fact weigh more than the sum of the matter within it.

    NB: Particle/subatomic physics is about the *only* time you won't get marked down in an exam for quoting a brazillion decimal places. Numbers taken from their respective Wikipedia pages (proton/neutron/alpha particle)

    Example: A helium nucleus (alpha particle) consists of 2 protons and 2 neutrons. Summing their *isolated* masses gives:

    (numbers in parentheses indicate uncertainty)

    2*proton mass + neutron mass = 2*1.672 621 71(29) × 10−27 kg + 2*1.674 927 29(28) × 10−27kg = 6.695097164 x 10-27kg

    Whereas an alpha particle weighs 6.644656×10-27 kg, ~0.05 x 10-27kg lighter.

    The alpha particle is lighter because it has less potential energy than the isolated constituents. An isolated proton has potential energy as it can "fall into" a group of other particles. You can then use the famous E=mc^2 equation to calculate the potential energy change, but I can't be bothered.

    Anyway, what the hell this all has with magnetic data storage is that the weight of a HDD would change depending on the amount of magnetic potential energy all the crystals on the platter had.

    I hope this has been enlightening.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2007

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