Bigpond rolling 100Mbit Cable nationwide

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by [KEi]SoVeReIgN, Nov 23, 2011.

  1. martino

    martino Member

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    It's news in that Telstra are upgrading the remainder of their network outside of Melbourne to DOCSIS3.0.

    They upgraded their Melbourne network before Optus did - and Optus certainly haven't had D3 for 4 years.
     
  2. FiShy

    FiShy Member

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    "what *can* be done though is to bung a fibre-fed DSLAM with VDSL2 channel cards into the basement of a MDU"
     
  3. caspian

    caspian Member

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    we try, it helps keep it obscure from the punters. :D how else are we expected to charge so much if people can understand what we're doing?!?!?

    mshagg, check the attenuation the modem reports. I'm expecting it's in line with a basement DSLAM, like a couple of dB.

    really, rewiring a MDU is a horror nobody wants to bear. "wiring" one for fibre from the outset is quite bad enough.
     
  4. cbb1935

    cbb1935 Guest

    and we still need the national broadband network why?

    Cable is already out in numerous areas, why not just expand it nationwide?
     
  5. PsychoSmiley

    PsychoSmiley Member

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    Because copper is shit as far as I'm concerned, I'd rather be all fibre than deal with copper in the short end. We all don't need to under the thumb of a large telco again either. The other issue I would say is shared bandwidth of cable also.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2011
  6. caspian

    caspian Member

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    because it would cost as much if not more to roll out HFC, and do you *really* want to be stuck with a legacy technology under the control of one carrier, as opposed to an agnostic government agency?
     
  7. Auriga

    Auriga Member

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    Telecom Australia + OTC = agnostic government?

    We're doing the full circle - yeeh hah - everyone on board!
     
  8. Duideka

    Duideka Member

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    Because:
    It's not available in Canberra.
    It's not available in Darwin.
    It's not available in Hobart.
    It's not available in almost all of Perth.
    It's not available in almost all of Adelaide.
    It's only available to about half of Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne.
    It's not available outside of capital cities, the only exclusions being 3 regional areas in VIC that N.Cable have covered.
    CBD's are not covered at all.
    Telstra and Optus CBF'd connecting units, or high rise buildings even if the cable passes them.

    And outside of the coverage problems, the technology itself has problems:
    No HFC network in the world is wholesaled, it would require a massive rebuild of the OSS/BSS systems, much of the networking eqiup would need to be replaced, too.

    And most importantly:
    The contention on the HFC network is through the roof! Even with very few people signed up to HFC the Optus HFC network reguarly falls on it's arse, if I am not mistaken it shares just 152/108Mbps over hundreds of houses - the Telstra network has double the downstream, at 304/108Mbps but even then that isn't much, especially if you have hundreds of folk on each run with 100Mbps connections.

    If you were to have every Australian on the HFC networks, the HFC networks would probably be just as slow as 3G, unless you spend such obscene amounts of money chopping and changing the networks that you might as well just roll out FTTH.
     
  9. caspian

    caspian Member

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    pretty much, yeah. the reality is that Australia isn't currently big enough to support more than one national carrier (cherry picking of major metro areas aside), the sorry lopsided state of the national DSL network shows this.

    throw in the benevolent but thoroughly misguided attempt of the ACCC to foster competition, which in reality have only resulted in the *appearance* of competition, and you have the mess we are left with today.

    this is really just a reversal of the poor Howard government decision to sell the company for a few dollars to fund an ultimately abortive election campaign. at the very least the network division should have been retained and the retail division sold off, but the fire sale nature of the release made that impossible - especially as the network division was the bit the government was most interested in unloading.

    OSS/BSS would be trivial. both HFC operators resell their DSL networks now. the only adaption would be to the additional products. tie B2B to RADIUS/hub whitelisting the same as the retail systems and away you go.

    the only reason it's not done now it is that both carriers know damn well it's a captive market, and with a lack of declaration of the product, there is zero incentive to product a wholesale product.

    I readily confess to not knowing a lot about HFC, both professionally and as I consider it a dead technology. (sure, what's there will continue to be leveraged while the capex can be screwed for an additional dollar, but you won't ever see more of it.)

    that said, *all* networks are subject to contention, FTTP included. it's all a matter of what you are prepared to put up with, and quite bluntly what people are paying for - which is normally a *lot* less than the maximum capability of the product. FTTP has a similar limited layer 1 medium to HFC, the primary difference being that HFC is limited mostly by business-defined contention, FTTP by GEM timeslot. both oversell the bandwidth available by a considerable margin if under load.
     
  10. BBITS

    BBITS Member

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    Ive got a statement here from Optus from dated 49 months ago with their "premium speed pack" bundled for an extra $15/month. Ive been with them since Cable got rolled out when there were no usage caps or speed limitations of any kind, used to regularly see 7mbytes/second prior to what you call D3 however now i regularly see upwards of 10 and syncs over 103mbit on the Cisco router they supplied me with. My price per month is still less than the 20GB bigstink plan, i dont have to bundle a phone either.

    Sorry to pick but this is all nothing new really.
     
  11. digizone

    digizone Member

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    It's a Non event for WA. Telstra never invested in any HFC other than a couple of very small suburbs.
     
  12. martino

    martino Member

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    Not sure what your email from 49 months ago relates to (I assume their DOCSIS2.0 upgrade, which certainly is old news), but Optus announced their DOCSIS3.0 100mbps network upgrade middle of last year.

    http://www.optus.com.au/aboutoptus/...onic+speeds+in+Brisbane,+Melbourne+and+Sydney

    Passes about 125000 houses.

    Which is 125000 more houses than Optus ;)
     
  13. caspian

    caspian Member

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    there's a lot of Telstra cable in the ground that never got connected either. a large chunk of Cairns got cable laid and it's just lying there corroding away gently.

    no concerete idea why, but I'm going to theorise it goes back 1996 when Foxtel was trying to get the Super League going as an alternative to the (at the time) ARL competition. when that collapsed due to legal action, Foxtel were left with a service that cost a fortune to deliver (due to what they were paying Australis for content) and was therefore difficult to sell, especially with the now-missing Super League content.

    since cable internet was yet to be launched (I think that was mid 1997 from memory), Telstra scaled back the HFC rollout from 4 million homes passed to 2.5 million, presumably the most profitable areas only. anywhere already cabled never had the headend equipment installed, and I again presume that by the time it would have been financially viable to use the cable, a combination of deterioration and the emergence of DSL meant it never happened.

    moldy telecomms history lesson for the morning over! there will be a test on the way out.
     
  14. b00n

    b00n Member

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    telstra will be rolling 100mbits cable to brisbane and sydney soon also as tech that installed my connection last week showed me the cisco docsis 3.0 router he had to start getting familiar with for installs, as he saw my lab of cisco gear on my desk
     
  15. martino

    martino Member

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    Thats what this thread is about :)
     
  16. TheWedgie

    TheWedgie Insert Custom Title Here

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    There's a bucketload of Optus HFC in Adelaide too, that's doing the same thing.
     
  17. FiShy

    FiShy Member

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    I remember being told it was due to the fact the ACMA license to roll this shit out expired and they could never complete it.
     
  18. TheWedgie

    TheWedgie Insert Custom Title Here

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    I'd heard it was because Unley council kicked up a stink about the cabling being overhead (with the power and Telstra stuff :rolleyes: ) and won a court case or similar, so Optus bailed.
    Never made sense to me 'cause they were happy only partially covering other cities, and most other councils wouldn't give a shit who put cable where.
     
  19. caspian

    caspian Member

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    there are a number of Melbourne suburbs where the local councils blocked Optus from installing aerial HFC, and I'm sure most people would remember the Brisbane protests. personally I think they're a pack of Luddites, and in my instances hypocrites too, because they'd be the first to complain about lack of broadband access or competition in the area.

    it was all through the last suburb I lived in in Melbourne, and with overhead power and phone cabling I didn't think it made that much difference.

    the economics of a rollout would come down to a bunch of things, like what suburbs can all be run back to a headend, what's the population density of those suburbs, and what's the demographic like - how many services are you going sell, what's the competition like in the area. it might not take much to tip a potential deployment into a walk away scenario if a couple of plum suburbs got knocked out by local council restrictions.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2011
  20. martino

    martino Member

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    Will be interesting to see if we get the same grassroots NIMBY protests for aerial NBN cabling.
     

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