broadwell mainstream CPU BGA only?

Discussion in 'Intel x86 CPUs and chipsets' started by lazyboy1984, Nov 23, 2012.

  1. lazyboy1984

    lazyboy1984 Member

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    http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di...hangeable_Desktop_Microprocessors_Report.html

    read this today, reckon it'll happen? hope it doesn't.

    i can't see how that will work, every low end or mid range buyer would essentially have to buy a motherboard with CPU already soldered on.

    it'll be a nightmare. every motherboard manufacturer would have to buy CPUs and offer a mainboard with every CPU option. to cut costs and redundant products, they would probably offer the worst boards with the cheapest celeron, pentium, i3 etc CPUs and mid range boards with i5s only.

    considering OC has already been killed off in low end CPUs, this is another crappy change we might not be able to escape from.
     
  2. Teamk1ller

    Teamk1ller (Banned or Deleted)

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    Sounds like something that will be done to mainstream sockets, but unlikely for the high end socket.
     
  3. SLATYE

    SLATYE SLATYE, not SLAYTE

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    That seems like a strange decision to make. Currently MSY lists sixty LGA1155 boards for sale and nineteen LGA1155 CPUs. If they were to sell all possible mainboard and CPU combos, there would be 1140 of them. This would be a pain in the neck, to put it lightly.

    I could imagine that Intel might try for something like the Atom, where they've only got a couple of CPUs available and manufacturers are only expected to produce one or two mainboard models.

    Maybe Intel just wants to encourage AMD to stay in the desktop market - given the option of an easily-upgradeable low-end AMD system or an impossible-to-upgrade low-end Intel one, I'd go for AMD consistently.


    Apart from that, somewhere around here I've got a QFP 80486SX-25 that's been soldered to a PCB that has all the pins on it. The result is that a chip which was clearly designed for permanent mounting to a mainboard can be dropped into a standard socket. It would not surprise me at all if this is the approach taken, either by Intel or one of the mainboard manufacturers. Intel might want to do it simply because it lets them continue with socketed chips while avoiding producing CPUs in more than a single package type.
     
  4. TickleMeElmo

    TickleMeElmo Member

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    But you have to bear in mind that nobody is going to buy a ROG board and an i3 processor. Also as they move more things on to the chip such as the PCH it kind of eliminates what separates the different motherboard models.

    I feel we will eventually get to a stage where there is a high end unlocked part with lots of PCIe slots, a mid range that supports maybe two PCIe slots, and then a low end small form factor.
     
  5. SLATYE

    SLATYE SLATYE, not SLAYTE

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    They wouldn't buy an ROG board with an i3, but they may well do the opposite (ie an i7 with the cheapest board they can find). Plenty of PC shops are guilty of doing that since it gives the best specs per dollar.

    I think there'll always be a fair spread of mainboards, possibly even increasing as more companies start adding ITX boards to their lines. Unless Intel go as far as they have with the Atom boards (eg. specifying that there must not be a PCIe 16x slot) then manufacturers will continue to find interesting things to stick on to high-end boards.
     
  6. stmok

    stmok Member

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    We'll cross that bridge when we get to it. In all likelihood, Intel will make provisions for the Enthusiast market like they currently have...They aren't going to abandon a vocal market that will hurt their PR in the long run. :rolleyes:

    Besides, that Xbit Labs article links back to the Japanese website; PC Watch...PC Watch has a history of pretty charts with information that should be taken with a grain of salt. The lesson I've learned is: If it isn't from an Intel presentation slide, one can generally ignore it. ;)
     
  7. octagonalman

    octagonalman Member

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    Perhaps we'll see more of the online upgrade cards to minimise the number of different models stocked should this go ahead.
     
  8. BrickTop

    BrickTop Member

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    Is it really an issue though?

    I'd say a majority of people (myself included) don't upgrade CPU / Mobo separately, especially as sockets have changed pretty quickly in recent years.
     
  9. Falls

    Falls Member

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    Maybe intel will sell allow mobo with intergrated cpu which you can test for a few weeks with different configurations then you login to intels website and pay for the cpu type you want.

    pros & cons? ideas?

    F.
     
  10. ricky60

    ricky60 Member

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    People are saying this like it's a bad thing. Motherboards integrate so much, but the CPU integrates heaps as well - most expansion boards are merely PCIe > xxxx interface boards (in the same way a modern soft modem has almost no electronics.

    The other thing the motherboard has is a significant amount of power regulation etc. If intel has so much swing with ATX standards etc, it would make a LOT of sense to integrate an entire system on a chip, and the motherboard simply be a "Breakout board", offering more tracks depending on the number of expansion boards. Less differentiation and more CPU integration would mean far less boards per manufacturer. All you really need is one chip, a ram slot, 12V input, and you'd have a very bare board that would do everything you need. Hell, you could cut a full ATX down to a mATX with a hacksaw if you really wanted to knock some slots off in this kind of scenario.

    The concept of "good" and "bad" motherboards really should be a thing of the past.
     
  11. Dezza Bot

    Dezza Bot Member

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    I'm guilty of doing both. When I'm building a box for an end user, the cpu choice is really just i3 i5 or i7, we generally don't care what specific model in that series it is, but for myself I tend to build very strange combinations of parts, like a 35w i3 cpu in a z77 4 way sli board for example, or an i7 extreme in some bargain basement asrock board.

    That all said as long as the 'performance' socket stays a socket I don't care that much, but it will complicate the motherboard lineup.

    This should have happened at least 10 years ago. any required dc-dc conversion should really live on the motherboard.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  12. MulderAU

    MulderAU Member

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    well if intel solder there cpus to mobo , AMD will hopefully pounce on that , and market it right , they will clean up with the enthusiasts
     
  13. bennyg

    bennyg Member

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    I highly doubt Intel will move to BGA across the board.

    Just too many nightmares, how many SKUs stores would have to carry, who deals with RMAs and who's responsible (board or CPU? who gets to test these and who carries the cost of the testing even before you get to deciding which is borked)

    Laptop/tablet share is through the roof vs desktop and 75%ish of laptops and 100% of tablet CPUs are unchangeable and even in capable ones I reckon only 0.001% of lappys ever see a CPU change anyway (do you hear of a clamour amongst lappy owners of the need to upgrade their CPU?)
     
  14. Quick Reply

    Quick Reply Member

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    Truth be told in the mainstream market (non performance/enthusiast/gamer) users never upgrade the CPU that comes with the computer, and currently there are an abundance of different motherboards from the same manufacturer with very little difference between them. If they did this, the CPU that is soldered on it just another "feature" of the board, and it has already got the the point today where CPUs are so powerful that even a "Low-end" CPU is more than sufficient for the mainstream market.

    It would be like soldering an i3 to an entry level board, both components would be more than enough power for a mainstream user, and the user would be more than happy with this because they wouldn't even know what an upgradable CPU is, and would rather buy a new PC than get someone to upgrade their CPU. I would think of this as the next step for Atom form factor wise, except actually has some acceptable performance.

    No matter what I think that they will still offer all components in removable form as well, so they don't alienate the market. It is possible to buy Mini-ITX boards with removable Atom CPUs for instance, although it is rare.
     
  15. metamorphosis

    metamorphosis Member

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    Terrible idea. My god. Not only are you unable to upgrade, if your CPU fries, you're left with a useless motherboard, and vice-versa. Once they get GPU-on-motherboard, then you'll basically be left with a laptop motherboard.
     
  16. ricky60

    ricky60 Member

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    Take your current idea of a "motherboard" and throw it out the window. This idea, if done right, will mean that the motherboard will just be a linkage between CPU and daughter boards and nothing more. CPU's almost never fail compared to motherboards. If the whole electronics of the "motherboard" was done in the CPU die, where would the issue be? Instead of buying an Intel CPU, buy an Intel board. Every laptop has a custom board, and essentially they all go through one of only a few manufacturers (Compal, Quanta, Foxconn). The whole "sixty motherboards" thing should only come down to the number of interconnects on the backplane and slots available. This is a natural progression with Laptops being such a massive part of the market share.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  17. DrFrag

    DrFrag Member

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    So what happens when I want to build a domestic file server with tons of onboard SATA ports and a cheap CPU? All the boards with 10 to 12 SATA ports are "high end" with SLI. Good luck finding one with a lowly i3 if CPUs are soldered on.

    I can't see this resulting in anything but less choice for consumers. And more limited upgrade options means more electronic waste.

    But as stmok said, let's not worry about this until Intel announces it.
     
  18. tompee

    tompee Member

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    1) Interchangable CPU's and motherboard are not only important for upgrading, they give configuration options for the up-front purchase.
    True, many people never upgrade their CPU's or motherboard independently, but they get control over matching budget to performance priorities up front.

    2) Even with more of the chipset onboard the CPU, there are still things like the number and type of ports on the motherboard, number and type of slots. I think this this move will reduce some flexibility, at least for the consumer end of the market.
    We've had it good for too long in a way... what other consumer goods are so customisable? Even very closely-related products like consoles, phones, Apple computers... the PC market has been an exception really, owing a lot to its business/IBM roots.
    Not surprised that PC's may be going the way of the laptop though.
     
  19. shane_3800

    shane_3800 Member

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    You do know there is a thing called a sas/sata card.
     
  20. shane_3800

    shane_3800 Member

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    In a way you are right but I presume if this go's ahead intel will release features to make their product more flexible.
     

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