Build Log: Bye Bye NBN, HELLO 4G!

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by Yoodaa, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. s4mmy

    s4mmy Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,176
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I’ve just started the process of setting up my parents holiday home. They were meant to be have FTTN Oct 2018. They have now blown out to May 2020 on FTTC.

    Will be following this closely and looking to implement the same.
     
  2. OP
    OP
    Yoodaa

    Yoodaa Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    1,698
    Location:
    Melbourne
    I'm hoping to have it up and live by cob next week.
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Yoodaa

    Yoodaa Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    1,698
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Received the following parts yesterday:

    1. Very short CAT6 cable for inside NH Box

    2. USB lights (Basically a USB key but with LED lights). Purpose of this is to plug into DC to DC USB step down USB outputs so that when light is on, I know power is available through to NH. Given the mast box will be difficult to troubleshoot without taking it down, a light on, on the output side will be very helpful. Plus the box will glow at night :). These were a couple of dollars for 5 on eBay. They are actually well built and very bright!

    3. DC to DC USB step down transformer.

    Once new power supply arrives, I will be fixing and cabling the DC to DC transformer in, making up the cable, and doing a test on the ground for stability etc with NH battery removed to ensure the transformer is clean and stable enough! The DC to DC is supposed to provide up to 25w @ 5v on the USB outputs, or 5 Amps, but time will tell... This the the unit here:

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC-12V-...=item4af0b2320a:g:IA4AAOSwEetV940t:rk:28:pf:0

    [​IMG]

    Specification:
    • Input: 9v - 40v
    • Output: 5V, within input range(9V~40V)
    • Current: 5A (long-term stable working)
    • Max current: 8A
    • Efficiency: 94%
    • Size: 47.5mm x 35.5mm x 22cm
    • Core components: kim-055L packaging, tps40057 chip
     
  4. cvidler

    cvidler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    12,775
    Location:
    Canberra
    I have to ask, why are you not using external antennae with a co-ax extension, instead of putting a bunch of stuff* in a box up on a pole.

    *stuff that doesn't like heat and moisture.
     
    NSanity likes this.
  5. chip

    chip Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    3,749
    Location:
    Pooraka Maccas drivethrough
    I suspect it's because the modem has 4 antennae, but only has two external antenna ports. The wisdom of whirlpool is that with the modem up a pole instead of in the house there's a chance that the two internal antennae will still get a decent signal.
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Yoodaa

    Yoodaa Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    1,698
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Yeah as stated in my OP, when the NH is inside the roof cavity, but connected to external antennas via co-ax, signal and speeds diminish greatly compared to having the device outside AND connected to the externals. That means that the device is using a combination of internal and external when connecting external antennas. Believe me this was the original intention!
     
    cvidler likes this.
  7. cvidler

    cvidler Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2001
    Messages:
    12,775
    Location:
    Canberra
    lol, so much better than the wisdom of the engineers that designed the device.

    I see a lot of enterprise installs, where the modem (radio) is in a rack in a server room/DC, and there's a bunch of co-ax to the roof where the antenna is.

    And my fixed wireless (not NBN) setup at home, is PoE Ethernet to the mast mounted dish, all of which is meant for outdoors installation (it's a Ubiquity product). When I finally get FttC I'll keep the fixed wireless as a backup service (assuming the FttC is competent as a primary).

    Still keen to see how this works, depending on viability and end cost, I may go a 4G backup service.
     
  8. chip

    chip Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    3,749
    Location:
    Pooraka Maccas drivethrough
    Hmm..on the one hand, we've got Netgear's OK engineering and shit-tacular management/software QA, on the other we've got the terrible SNR of whirlpool. Whoever wins, we all lose :|


    As for powering the device, how much juice does the MR1100 need to run? If it's <=12W there are 802.3af to 5V USB splitters (eg https://www.adafruit.com/product/3785 ) that may do the job and remove the need to run a separate 12V DC line out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  9. OP
    OP
    Yoodaa

    Yoodaa Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    1,698
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Based on what I have read, its right around 2.5A, and some have experienced reboots with a 2.4A supply. This of coarse depends on what throughput your pulling too, and services switched on/off, etc. I looked at this as an option, however, the issue I had was that I wanted to run a fan (or fans) in the box, and as soon as I start splitting the 2.4A supply, I compromise the stability of the NH. This is why I decided to go up the mast with a separate 12v supply. Means I can add many fans if needed, along with other items as well like a Rasberry pi, etc.
     
  10. chip

    chip Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    3,749
    Location:
    Pooraka Maccas drivethrough
    that makes sense. I've been looking at industrial 802.3bt/UPOE splitters that will give 60W/5A/12V output (for driving telepresence gear) which is quite nice, but they cost a lot more than running a separate 12V cable would in your case.
     
  11. 3th4n

    3th4n Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    311
    Hi Yoodaa,

    This has been a great read so far, I look forward to seeing this completed.

    Lately I've been pretty disappointed with my NBN Fixed Wireless connection, during peak activity I can barely make 5Mbps down with the upload occasionally hitting 8Mbps... I know my particular setup is capable of more as I have achieved over 45Mbps in the very early hours of the morning. At first I thought it was my ISP that didn't have enough bandwidth, but after seeing multiple other connections with other ISP's (incl. Telstra, Optus) with almost exactly the same slowdown it became apparent that there's serious congestion. I don't use this for work much, certainly more of an entertainment tool in my case but I'd like to be able to watch netflix without it buffering, browse reddit without pages loading and watch youtube videos in HD while I'm unwinding from work.

    I've followed some of the testing you've done, I guess it might be easier if I format this as you have... Still kinda new to this so let me know if I've made any mistakes here.

    Step 1.
    Cannot see any towers: Check.
    I've picked two towers that are within 10km of me (the only two towers actually)
    Site 1 is 4.47km away, supports 4X4 MIMO, 198Mbps capacity on 763MHz (no other MHz on this tower)
    Site 2 is 7.84km away, supports 4X4 MIMO, 763MHz/198Mbps, 1857MHz/494Mbps, 2680MHz/396Mbps (all support 4X4 MIMO)

    Step 2.
    Coffee: Check
    Biscuit: Nope :(
    I used ve2dbe.com as well, quite a nice tool. I wasn't sure how much information to enter, in-fact I left the antenna height of the tower at the default as I was only really after worst case scenario results at the time

    Site 1 - 4.47km away:
    [​IMG]

    Site 2 - 7.84km away:
    [​IMG]

    (My internet actually drops out at this point whilst I'm typing this)

    Step 3.
    Based on your testing I was sold on the Netgear M1100, but I ended up doing some of my own field testing...
    I drove to Site 1 (763MHz only tower) parked on the side of the road about 50m from the tower, I ran a speedtest on my phone (OPPO A73, 300Mbps/50Mbps) - I was barely able to get 45Mbps. This is the tower I'm connected to when I'm home, where I typically achieve 30-40Mbps when I'm sitting outside.
    Site 2 is the tower I'm connected to when I'm at work. I frequently do speedtests throughout the day and occasionally very early in the morning. Almost always able to achieve above 130Mbps, sometimes close to 200Mbps. Uploads are usually around the 20-30Mbps mark, but I don't need this connection for upload so not worried about that.

    I might do some more testing with Site 1, I don't know if another phone would make much of a difference here.
    At this point I'd really like to get Site 2 speeds in my home. Have to borrow a Yagi and see what signal/speed I can achieve.

    From what I've read in your testing and a reply somewhere in this thread, the only real reason you aren't going with the $80/500GB plan is because you're tied into those shitty modems?
    Reason I ask is if I don't get better speed from Site 2, I know I can get good signal and acceptable speed from Site 1 without an antenna. I'd probably look at the Huawei B525 modem if that's the case and mount it in a weather proof box outside like you are, but without the antenna. Is there any reason this wouldn't be similar to my phones connection speed? Just wondering as it seems this might be what you initially wanted to do, but you started with a B315 modem which is only CAT4 (150Mbps down - no MIMO) vs the B525 modem which is CAT6 (300Mbps down + 2X2 MIMO). If this is the case I'm leaning towards the $80/500GB plan on 24mths for the $0 modem :leet:

    Step 4/4.5/5.
    Hopefully I can use the 1800/2600MHz band on Site 2 :fingerscrossed:

    I really like the idea of mounting the NH outside. The USB lights are a nice touch, will be good to know if power is making it up there. I'm sure you've thought of it already, but might be a good idea to leave the battery out of the NH, and run the 12v power supply on a UPS so you can power cycle the device without a ladder, but keep everything running if the power drops out.
    Since I'm renting and have an exposed garage, I'd love to cable it but I can't. I was thinking about using a Gigabit EOP and running an extension lead into the box keeping it all under the roof. I should check what else is on the circuit, might not be able to do that...


    Anyway that's my 2c, very interested in seeing how this goes for you!
    (The internet is still out:tired:)
    USB tethering my phone right now - even my PC is preparing for 4G!:leet::lol:
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
    firey4059 likes this.
  12. s4mmy

    s4mmy Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,176
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Did you try any of the smaller ISP's? Or just the big ones?
     
  13. [RMS] ST1NG3R

    [RMS] ST1NG3R Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2010
    Messages:
    444
    Location:
    3170
    I'm pretty sure it was those plans are tied to a 12up cap. So you cannot actually exceed that speed despite being capable.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    Yoodaa

    Yoodaa Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    1,698
    Location:
    Melbourne
    This was
    This was the case up until recently. Optus have now removed limitations.
     
  15. OP
    OP
    Yoodaa

    Yoodaa Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    1,698
    Location:
    Melbourne

    "welcome back to Yoodaa's methodology to better 4G" lol.

    Ok, so a few things here. Firstly well done doing 99% of the work!

    1. As for the towers, provided you can get a decent strength signal (looks like you might have some serious earth to go through on tower 2, but so did I for my first tower and I still get signal so you never know) I would say 700/1800 will be your best bet (like my setup) on Tower 2. Add a height of say 8 meters and see what the chart looks like as this would be at least the expected height of a mast on the roof. 700Mhz is good as its nice and low and penetrates a lot of stuff. Hopefully if signal is good enough your modem will CA onto 1800 and you are away! Tower 2 may be further away, but its got a lot more to offer.

    Modems are fun. Personally I don't like the Optus offerings. The AC800S which is supposed to be their flagship modem sucks. Badly. No Ethernet, random reboots when on certain bands, etc. The newer Huawei offerings look ok so I would be looking at that. What I would do personally, is buy the B525 outright secondhand, test, and then sign up for the plan with no modem. Means you have tested ad can verify its going to work like you actually want it to before locking in a 24 month contract. This is what I did essentially. But first, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, make sure you can fix the bands on the B525. If not, your up the creek really as you are at the discretion of what the modem wants t do.

    As for antennas, I would say Yagi all the way given your trying to ping a tower 4km away. Where are you based? I have a Yagi you might be able to borrow but don't want it posted all over the country if you know what I mean.

    Looking forward to your build!
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  16. OP
    OP
    Yoodaa

    Yoodaa Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    1,698
    Location:
    Melbourne
    No deliveries today. I feel like the postman only delivers every second day around here....

    Anyway hoping the rest of the kit arrives tomorrow so I can get this show on the road!
     
  17. Pugs

    Pugs Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    9,245
    Location:
    Redwood Park, SA
    some areas even in the metro area they only delivery every second day.. cutbacks...

    cool thread btw and great info sharing..
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  18. OP
    OP
    Yoodaa

    Yoodaa Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    1,698
    Location:
    Melbourne
    For those who are following....The power supply and thermostat arrived today which means....I have all the parts to start testing!

    Dads down for a visit so I have him on the soldering iron today making up the cable that will go from the power supply to the DC to DC regulator. This afternoon we plan on testing the PSU/Regulator to power the NH under load and test for stability. All going well, I will start adding items into the box, gluing standoffs, and getting prepped to rock and roll!

    Scheduling this weekend for official install so stay tuned, hoping to melt the NH with the speeds I hope to get!
     
    SuiCid3 likes this.
  19. s4mmy

    s4mmy Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,176
    Location:
    Melbourne
    [​IMG]
     
  20. SuiCid3

    SuiCid3 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    4,246
    Location:
    2007
    $125 for 400GB on 4G is pretty bloody decent eh?
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: