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Building a PhidoNAS

Discussion in 'Storage & Backup' started by Phido, Sep 8, 2020.

  1. Phido

    Phido Member

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    Ok, I've never had a NAS before. However, working from home is definitely a thing now, we need to store files somewhere on a network, our old USB HD that we plugged directly into our TV's are dying and its bloody 2020. Everything is a mess, and I want something fast and reliable.I am basically redoing my whole network/media/storage.

    So well, I bought two 14TB hard disks and I am now after a NAS. Originally I was going to go super cheap, maybe get something $200-300. Just serve files. But for not a lot more I could get something like Asustor Nimbustor AS5304T.

    What are peoples opinions of these? I was thinking QNAP or Synology but this seems to make a really compelling set of features over and above the basic box, and the 2 bay go for $400 and the 4 bay goes for $600.

    Is it worth going for 4 bay NAS? - Edit not, I've Moved on. I'm building a pretty decked out home rolled NAS now.

    Home Build PhidoNAS

    • Node304 case in white
    • Gigabyte b450 I Aourus pro I ITX motherboard
    • Ryzen 3100 with standard wraith cooler
    • 16GB ECC UDIMM 3200Mhz x 1
    • NVME to 5 SATA adapter
    • 6 x 14 TB WD shucked drives (5400 rpm ~220Mb/s read/write)
    • ~70 TB accessible of spinning disk with 1 for parity
    • 2 x SATA 1TB drives for high speed network scratch storage. (400Mb write/550Mb read
    • USB to 2.5GB adapter (this may change later to a 10GB card)
    • ANTEC PSU 600w ATX

     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
    macktheknife likes this.
  2. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I'm sitting on 2x 8TB disks in a mirror currently, and so far haven't had any great need to expand. With disk sizes the way they are, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of value in going larger for me, as it's just more power and complexity for little real world need.

    My loose plan is just to upgrade disks at point of failure, and slowly grow the available space that way.

    As long as they offer a file system with bit rot protection, everything else is just candy to me. I run my own NAS mostly because that's the sort of work I do, and I can customize it to my exact needs. But I also realise these off-the-shelf units are now including all sorts of container managers and the like to let you run heaps of software easily. Although the security aspect worries me (too many large scale vulnerabilities not patched in time for my liking).
     
  3. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    Well like most, this is based off linux so can run a wide variety of applications, I'm not sure if its right to refer to it just as a NAS any more as it can run virtual machines (Win/Linx/Mac), and you can hook a keyboard and mouse up to it and use it as media player or desktop. They really are mini-servers.

    There were some excellent deals on 14Tb drives, so I bought that capacity because of the attractive $s per TB. https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/563850 $330 for 14tb seemed a good deal.

    I think I might just get a 2 bay NAS. The temptation to double up on another 2x14tb drives would be too tempting to "complete it". I don't think I need that much storage.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    Looking at this a bit more..

    the 2 bay costs about $600 delivered. https://secure.newegg.com/global/au-en/Shopping/ShoppingCart.aspx?submit=view. Its $450 base price, then GST, then shipping etc.
    The 4 bay costs $650 delivered https://www.amazon.com/Asustor-AS53...eywords=Asustor+AS5202T&qid=1599612052&sr=8-2

    I think I am going to pull the trigger on the 4 bay. While I had originally budgeted $300 for a 2 drive nas, the 4 bay with 2x2.5Gb 4 core celeron just seems more capable, future proof and better value. Transfer speeds are going to be 5 times faster than the $300 unit.

    Both support Btrfs.
     
  5. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    Maybe I'm the wrong target market, but at those prices I'd be throwing an AliExpress Xeon and matching mobo in a cheap case, and just running Linux.
     
    grs1961 and kjparker like this.
  6. vk2fro

    vk2fro Member

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    Damh those 14Tb drives are a good deal. I don't need more space right now!

    Wonder if you can upgrade the celeron in that nas to a more capable i3/5 or a Xeon :p
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    I've thought about it.

    Aliexpress xeon $80
    Mobo $80
    RAm $50
    2 x 2.5Gb network cards 2 x $100
    case $50
    PSU $60
    Which puts it in the $400-$500 range.
    Uses more power, not the latest decoding instructions, etc..

    I have an old Phenom II x6 which could be repurposed.

    I am trapped in a loop.
    I look at the $250 NAS and think thats good value
    Then I look at teh $300-$350 NAS and see features I want
    Then its not that far a stretch to the Asustor which is available locally for $530.
    https://www.skycomp.com.au/asustor-...NBUOMwIMUK_QBq7nMBTdCgObIUC5TPcxoCTYQQAvD_BwE

    Of course 2.5Gb Ethernet isn't I guess a requirement, but then 1gb seems so pedestrian. If the additional speed of 2.5 or 5gbps ethernet is going to be felt anywhere it would be on the NAS. Plus as further justification I have MITX boxes, I very much want to keep mechnical harddisks out of.

    The Intel Celeron J4105 in the 4 bay unit is quite powerful, single thread performance simular to a Xeon E5-2609 v3 and multi thread performance simular to a Intel I3- 5157u. People say it can do 3 x 1080p transcodes on the fly.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  8. demiurge3141

    demiurge3141 Member

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    Well 4 bay allows better efficiency for redundancy, you lose 25% instead of 50%. Also 2.5gb is meaningless unless the rest of your network supports it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  9. Zee

    Zee Member

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    Do you really need Transcoding? Think about that.

    My first NAS was a Synology DS212j, its purpose in life was to feed BD ISO/BDMV files to my media player - which could read them RAW, no transcoding needed. That quite a while ago now, and I still have no use for transcoding. I may be a rare case, but it's not that hard to find inexpensive gear that can play just about any native files directly.

    I'm on a DS 414+ these days, and still don't need Plex... I just rip my BD's to the NAS, and play them when I want on an Openelec.Librelec box.

    In fact, with Infuse on an Apple TV 4K - it just starts the movie, menus ignored... Perfect.

    Z...
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  10. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    Well the more I look into transcoding the more I feel I don't need it. Hardware transcoding needs plexpass to be supported. why would I pay $5 a month to access content I already have?

    I am still drawn to the dual 2.5Gb connections. Five times the speed of GB ethernet. I can't help but feel a GB ethernet NAS will feel very dated in 1 or 2 years.
     
  11. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    I have never and will never understand the "Plex transcoding" thing. Who does this *all the time*?

    At best, my media is in a sensible codec already (H264 and H265 dominate everything). At worst, it's a one-time transcode back to the two codecs I just mentioned.

    Who needs different? Why are people transcoding constantly? And why would you pay for that when ffmpeg is free?

    I've spent over a decade working in the tech side of the media industry. I've built entire transcode clusters and render farms professionally. And yet, I never, ever need that nonsense at home.

    Anyways, sorry for the offtopic rant here. This whole "plex and transcoding" thing continually comes up in these forums, and I can't, for the life of me, understand why.
     
    Zee likes this.
  12. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    I guess transcoding is a feature because its now possible to do so.

    Arhh.. The Asustor 2.5Gb usb adapters is only compatible with Celeron based NAS.. Also ADM 3.4 is only available on these, which has the bit rot protection file system.
    Cheapest 2 bay NAS ~ $250. Weak cpu, 512mb ram, can't really serve anything other than files, no BTrfs.

    Ok maybe just buy a $350 NAS, dual core celeron, use BTrfs, upgradable with a $30 2.5Gb USB adapter.
     
  13. demiurge3141

    demiurge3141 Member

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    Probably easier just to throw an itx build together. Then you can run whatever system and put in a 10gbe nic later if you need to upgrade network.
     
  14. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    I don't really want another Mitx build.

    I am just gunna buy the AS3102 $350 https://www.asustor.com/en/product?p_id=58

    Maybe I've overpaid. I wanted:
    • BTrfs
    • Two bay
    • Offically 2.5Gbs Ethernet upgradable (or at least 2 x Gb)
    • Able to run security cameras
    • It would also be nice if it can run some servers, wordpress server, FTP, bittorrent client etc. So really a x86 class cpu.
    BTrfs really rules out all the cheap NAS. They don't have it. While you might be able to patch or roll your own OS onto the machine I want something that is going to definitely work from the box.
    Security cameras also generally rules out the cheaper NAS.
    Asustor makes their own 2.5Gb adapter and its compatible with this model (not with any of the arm powered NAS). Its a sub $50 part. It comes with 2 x GB ethernet.
     
  15. MR CHILLED

    MR CHILLED D'oh!

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    And this is how my Synology NAS is being used mostly. I really don't know how I did without it, well actually I do, it was copying super large files to usb drives and plugging them into devices :rolleyes: I purchased the NAS in coordination with setting up a rack and home network infrastructure. I've got everything working now as I've always wanted it.

    I do absolutely love my NAS though.
     
  16. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    Well, I tried to buy a NAS but the reseller now tells me its out of stock. I then tried to buy one from Center com, but the payment authorization never came through so cancelled that.

    This buying a nas thing isn't easy.

    I figured what the hell. I have an old 4790k and z97I-plus coming out of my ncase in october when it becomes a ryzen 4900x system.

    So I assume a i4790k is fast enough for a nas.

    However can't really see any cheap NAS cases.
     
  17. Hater

    Hater Member

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    HAve you considered buying a ye olde NAS for ~$cheap and using it as a shell for a Pi based system? It'd already have the sexy chassis and drive bays and could be had for... well I saw first gen ReadyNAS's go for $20.
     
  18. Symon

    Symon Castigat ridendo mores

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    Be mindful of the power consumption. My first foray into NAS was a 4770K running OMV. Worked well but even at idle it would still draw about 100W which is not good for something that is on 24/7. Might be worth underclocking it or putting a lower end CPU in there - you don't need that kind of grunt for a NAS.
     
  19. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    I am thinking about spending about $130 at getting a node 304. It can fit 6 x 3.5 drives. I would like nice hotswap bays, but this I think will do.

    This motherboard has full overclock/underclock settings. Shouldn't be hard to get this below <30w.
    This board also has a m2 PCIE slot for SSD's, so I can put some high speed cache on it.

    I am now thinking of grabbing 2 more 14 TB drives and running RAID5. This would give me 42TB of high speed storage.

    So overall specs:

    Node304
    4770k
    8 Gb DDR3 1600
    4 x 14TB drives in RAID 5
    1 x GB ethernet
    1 x 2.5GB ethernet
    1 x 250GB NVME ssd cache
     
  20. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    All parts ordered..

    I got 2 additional 14tb drives for $390 each. Not as cheap as the original $340, but I think still good value. Big investment for a home NAS.

    I am going to try to resit the CPU to get the other memory channel working, so I can use the 16Gb of DDR3. Its not ecc, but I don't think that can be helped right now. Eventually I could see moving my AM4 itx platforms along, and they do support ECC.

    Not sure my 2.5Gb ethernet adapter will work with freeNAS, there is some hope, however, its more of a future thing at this stage.
     

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