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Building a PhidoNAS

Discussion in 'Storage & Backup' started by Phido, Sep 8, 2020.

  1. ^catalyst

    ^catalyst Member

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    You're 100% wasting your time with the 2.5GbE, doubly so if you're using a USB 2.5GbE NIC. Do you have all 2.5GbE switches? Do you need more than 100MB/s transfer rate from the NAS?
     
  2. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    USB3 will cover this fine.

    The rest of your comments stand though.
     
  3. ^catalyst

    ^catalyst Member

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    Whats the deal with USB NICs nowdays though? I seem to recall the issue wasn't really about the bus itself, more than a lot of the adaptors were basically just PHY and pushed a lot of work on to the host CPU, rendering them, as the french say, fucking useless.
     
  4. elvis

    elvis Old school old fool

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    2.5Gbit/s is roughly 250MB/s, which for a modern system with a squillion cores is SFA.

    We have SSDs and GPUs that don't even consider that a blip on their radar today.

    USB connected network devices (and lots of other IO) are going to become more and more common place in a USB 3 and above world.
     
  5. ^catalyst

    ^catalyst Member

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    Yeah I suppose my knowledge there is probably outdated, obviously 250MB/s isn't going to be problematic CPU usage in a home sitch, but I seem to recall GbE adaptors that took double digit CPU % while under any kind of load which had a material effect on performance. I imagine there are improvements with the various iterations of USB that enable ostensibly lower host CPU usage for stuff like this now.
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    2.5Gb is still two and half times faster than normal.
    50Gb will take ~ 200 seconds @ 2.5Gb <3.5Minutes
    50Gb will take ~ 500 seconds @ 1Gb ~8.5Minutes

    Probably more usefully:
    5Gb is 20 seconds at 2.5Gb
    5Gb is 50 seconds at 1Gb

    20 seconds falls within my realm of fast enough. 50 seconds would be leave and make a coffee.
    My discs will struggle to provide more than that. So 10Gbe isn't really worth it IMO, for home. I would be paying 10 times as much for basically the same access speed.

    While its pretty slow, for home use, I think it will be fine. Of course I have fast storage in each of the machines. Slowest is going to be 3000Mb/s. But all of my boxes are SFF or itx now, so bulk storage is going to the network. Again, having 42TB of RAID storage at home with 2.5Gb is IMO, fine. All of my machines are going to have 32Gb-64GB ram and 1-4TB of NVME SSD storage.

    For switching, I was going to get a QSW-1105-5T. These go for about $100usd. 5 ports all at 2.5GbE. 5 ports is all I need.
    The USB adapters 2.5gbe are like $30 each delivered.

    1 x Phido PC through the embedded 2.5Gbe on the B550
    1 x Wife PC through the 2.5Gb usb
    1 x NAS through the 2.5Gb usb
    1 x Wifi6/Wifi6e/Wifi7 Router with 2.5Gbe input (something like https://www.tp-link.com/au/home-networking/wifi-router/archer-ax6000/ )
    1 x future expansion/probably another wifi router in a different part- but will also carry the 1Gb main TV line back as well.

    TV's, kid pc's, security cameras, printers etc will all be off the 1GBe stuff. 100mb/s will be fine for that. But loading 5Gb of data files on and off the NAS? Yeh, 2.5Gb will provide significant benefits.

    Yes, normally I would prefer a PCIE adapter, intel. But USB has come a long way. Really modern IO isn't that much different in terms of CPU overhead. The old USB 2.0 network adapters are long dead. USB can now support 5Gbps, 10Gbps easy. It will do it with low overhead as well. Some even use the same chipsets as the PCIE cards. NAS providers are pushing USB adapters for their products now. Obviously consumer spec stuff from Synology, Qnap and Asustor, but still workable.

    Backboning your home Network to 2.5Gbe is totally doable now. Its not even that expensive or difficult.
    Link your main desktops, your NAS, and your Wifi6 router, all 2.5g.. <$200.
     
  7. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    WOOT!

    2 x 14tb have arrived.
    however the 2 from the US and the Node case have even shipped out yet.
     
  8. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    Looks for the time being I will be plugging my NAS into the 2.5 Gb port of my new Wifi router.
    The router is the Asus Rt-ax86U. It has one 2.5Gb port and 4 GB ports and support Wifi 6.

    https://dongknows.com/asus-rt-ax86u-ax5700-gaming-router-review/

    These are on sale for $370 from amazon. They seem pretty good.

    Hopefully it can push 150-200Mb/s over Wifi6.
    Plus it will be able to handle multiple requests from wifi and wired connections to that 2.5gb port.

    I do intend to get a 2.5/5.0Gbps router, but given the budget blow out buying 56TB of disk and a new high speed router, I think I will wait. Plus I think for my wired connections I might just wait for 5.0Gbps or 10Gbps, given I will actually have wire up the rooms they are going into. 5 or 10 would make it much faster than the Wifi6 connections I hope I can get.
     
  9. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    Ok..
    Node 304 case arrived.

    2 x 14TB arrived
    still waiting on 2 x 14 tb from the US
     
  10. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    Update:

    Shucked 4 x 14tb drives, installed into Node case.
    Ordered 2 more 14tb drives

    Will now be 6 x 14 tb in RAID 5. This should give me 70TB of RAID storage, able to survive single disk failure (which IMO is fine for home storage of a 6 disk array, RAID isn't a back up of course!). Read speeds will be phenomenal hopefully. should read at ~1000Mb/s.. Write speed will most likely be terrible <100Mbps.

    I also picked up 2 x 1tb SSD's.
    https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/B07D998212/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    For $113 each, two of these will sit in the NAS as high speed storage. Being ~500mb/s read/450mb/s write they will be plenty fast and at 1tb each plenty big enough for highspeed network storage.

    My network PC's also have SATA SSD's (500gb-1tb) as well as NVME's(always 1tb). So this is really just additional scratch space etc.

    Controller is Dell P200 flashed to IT LSI mode SAS to 8 SATA.

    Given the scale of everything, I think I might start now looking at 5GB or 10GB networking. 2.5Gb is fine for my wifi router, but this setup will now support much faster network performance.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  11. Symon

    Symon Castigat ridendo mores

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    Once you go that route you never go back. After stuffing around with second hand enterprise switches I bit the bullet and got one of these - https://www.ui.com/unifi-switching/unifi-switch-16-xg/ as the connections to our PC's and NAS were already via fibre, I found it was actually cheaper to go that way than 10GB copper.
     
  12. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    I'll have to look at it, how am I going to support 10GBe on multiple MITX platforms (all my machines at MITX or smaller). My MITX platforms have 2.5g integrated.
    Eh, that is a future phido problem. I might wait a year or two for the 2.5/5/10 space to precipitate.

    If I can just get everything working at this stage I will be pretty happy.
    At this stage its just going to be:

    NAS ==2.5G=> Wifi6 Asus router---- Wifi6 link to PCs

    I've kinda blown my budget for now. Originally I was going to get like a 4tb single drive NAS. Now its a 70Tb+ monster. I've also overspent in disks, and I should be pairing ECC ram with this.
     
  13. Symon

    Symon Castigat ridendo mores

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    I hear ya, wife and I are in to photography so decided to get a NAS to store our stuff and get some redundancy for our data (local + NAS). That's grown to three NAS's (main + backup) and a third at my parents which backups via a VPN. 10GB from PC's to switch, and from switch to NAS's are 2 x 10GB LAGG. Pretty slick, but hurt the back pocket.
     
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  14. cvidler

    cvidler Member

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    Forget about Plex - they hide the useful features behind their plexpass subscription, which is useless in Australia anyway cause they don't even do a local EPG.

    'Jellyfin' same same but different, completely open source, and no subscription garbage. I converted from Plex to Jellyfin a few months ago, no looking back.
     
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  15. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    Ok, things have spiralled out of hand.

    New setup

    Ryzen 3100 with wraith cooler - https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/B0876Y2TMZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 - $158
    16GB ECC (single dimm can be upgraded to 32gb). https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/B08C56GZGK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 $90 3200Mhz ECC
    Gigabyte b450 I motherboard (being handed down - New B550 is replacing it though, so you know expensive hand down)
    NVME to 5 x SATA adapter (https://www.amazon.com.au/gp/product/B07T3RMFFT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 $77
    Operating headless

    Advantages:
    • Much newer parts (my memory channel on my 4790k is a bit dodgy, only reads 1 dimm I think the motherboard is a little flaky its now ~6 years old platform). Ultimately 8gb is a bit small for Freenas. New CPU instructions, decoding, encryption etc.
    • Lower power consumption (hopefully)
    • ECC ram/ECC function
    • More ram/Faster ram
    • Able to upgrade to 32gb ram
    • Able to support more HD (5+4 SATA)
    Disadvantages:
    Cost!

    Given I've put $2k+ into disk, I figured I might as well build a proper reliable NAS, not just loads of disk hooked up to what ever is left over.
     
  16. Symon

    Symon Castigat ridendo mores

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    Yep, he's been bitten by the bug captain!

    Hope you've got a rack to put that bad boy in.
     
  17. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

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    Jellyfin is great, but still quite a long way from being family/friend ready in my opinion, obviously depending on how much help you want to give them, or telling them they have to buy X device to use jellyfin.

    Plex Pass is quite good, but think its only worth it during their 50% off Lifetime sales.

    It really depends on OP's plans, sharing in your house vs sharing with friends and family is very different.
     
  18. chip

    chip Member

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    Can you elaborate? I've had no dramas with random, ancient Android devices and Jellyfin (as long as they have hardware h264 decode, which is an incredibly low bar to clear)
     
  19. bart5986

    bart5986 Member

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    People want to use the device they already have in their home, they don't want to buy a $100 device.

    I also don't like suggesting someone buy a $100 device, because they are often terrible and don't direct play everything, people in the USA buy Roku boxes which seem to be perfect.

    Here are some devices you can't use Jellyfin on at this point in time.

    PS4 (Unless you use the web browser)
    Xbox One
    LG TV OS
    Samsung Tizen TV's

    And likely more, Plex has a lot of support everywhere.

    Jellyfin is working at a fast pace though so eventually everything should have support except the PS4, that seems to be never happening because Sony won't allow open source software.


    I would much rather Jellyfin myself but its just not ready for friends/family for me.


    Also in reguards to transcoding, I'm getting a lot of x265 content these days, there is very little device support for it so its great to be able to transcode.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
  20. OP
    OP
    Phido

    Phido Member

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    Well in for a penny, in for a pound.
    I guess the same setup I was hoping to live with with say just two discs, is no longer relevant to a 6 x 14tb setup.

    The Ryzen 3100 is quite cheap for a ECC CPU, quite fast, and quite power efficient.
    As I am already planning an upgrade, rather than reuse the b450 in the itx desktop, I will just get a new B550 mb. I guess if your going to upgrade, do it properly.

    Yeh, I am now looking at something wall mounted.. 8RU
    https://www.ebay.com.au/p/694307491?iid=221639476611

    We will see. I want to measure the power usage, then I can size an appropriate UPS then I will choose something to store it in.

    I'm still not sure what I will be running networkwise.

    My original plan was 2.5GB internally and 2.5gb to my wifi6 router.

    I really just want to share across the house. Most of my friends and family have android TV's so I hope that is doable.

    Im researching Jellyfin on Freenas.. Software wise I am a total noobie at this, I've never played with setting up a NAS and last time I used linux it was in the late 90's/
     

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