Cheap 3D Printers?

Discussion in 'Hobby Engineering' started by Aussiejuggalo, Apr 25, 2015.

  1. cyrax83

    cyrax83 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2005
    Messages:
    5,066
    Location:
    hurstville, sydney
    Got my ender 3 all set up with a glass bed. Also been researching all about it.

    I've managed to print/do a few mods:
    • Filament holder
    • LCD rear cover
    • Cable clips
    • Replaced couplers
    Got a few more things planned such as installing 3D Touch (BL Touch knock off), flashing firmware, replacing extruder with a metal one, replacing springs, replacing bowden tube etc. Just waiting on parts to arrive from China

    Still getting the hang of bed levelling, I've found hair spray is the best for adhesion. Once I manage to get the 3D Touch in there it should hopefully not be an issue anymore.

    Tried to calibrate the e-step on the extruder last night, was getting inconsistent results. Might try again once I flash a bootloader and marlin
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2019
  2. iMomOx3

    iMomOx3 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,252
    Damn.... the more research I look into this the more I want to do X Y and Z...

    So, I started my query here to look into creating board game accessories and small miniature items with details etc.

    Ryo's suggestion with a DLP Resin type printer was perfect. I was looking at the AnyCubic Photon 3D. Some benefits that I have made out from this are:
    • + Easy to function.
    • + Easy to level the printing head.
    • + Better quality/detail in miniature and smaller scale models.
    • + Little to no setup, little maintenance.
    • + Works right away out of the box.
    • - A bit more pricey for materials (resin, gloves, IPA etc) - this is not too big of an issue however
    • - Smaller build volume space
    • - Apparently the fumes could be a problem? Ideally I'd like this in my study room but if I have to go downstairs to the garage then it isn't too big of a deal - but ideally I'd like to have my printer indoors in the study. (It's not a well ventilated room as it has one of those windows that only roll out about 4-6 inches diagonally from the bottom.
    Then I started snooping around Thingiverse more and now I want to start making larger things that a FDM type Printer like the Creality CR10-mini or Ender 3 may do better. So I broke it down to:
    • + Bigger build volume/bed to do larger projects
    • + Cheaper material costs (filaments, replacement parts etc)
    • + Can use it in the study room in the apartment upstairs more appropriately
    • + I do like the idea of modding some parts, but I don't want to get too handsy and don't want to have to mod it just to get it to run.
    • - Will definitely require some assembly (mostly the Ender 3).
    • - Requires more maintenance, more things can go wrong if my understanding is right.
    • - Requires lots of calibration and troubleshooting/experimenting to get it working correctly. (I get this is part of the hobby, but working out of the box is a + for me)
    I'm in a dilemma. I want both, but will only buy 1 til I know the hobby is right and maybe look at a 2nd unit. Should I go for the DLP and just do what I initially came in here for and make small scale things with higher level of detail, or take on my urges with wanting to make larger projects like cosplay helmets with the benefit of a larger printing volume with the likes of the CR-10 mini or the Ender 3. If I go the FDM type, should I just go cheap for the Ender 3 which will require modifications, or spend the couple hundreds more and get the CR-10mini? Poopy :confused::wired:
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2019
  3. tangcla

    tangcla Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2001
    Messages:
    7,356
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Buy one of each.
    :leet:
     
    iMomOx3 likes this.
  4. iMomOx3

    iMomOx3 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,252
    You know what. I guarantee when I get one, it won't be long before I get the other and go down this rabbit hole :(
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Aussiejuggalo

    Aussiejuggalo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,628
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast Queensland
    It really depends, resin is more expensive but far easier where as FDM is cheaper but a major pain in the ass when starting from scratch especially if you get a warped bed (mostly a Creality problem which they should've fixed by now, made them 1mm thicker), it'll cause you all kinds of headaches like what I'm having.

    Buying one of each would be my suggestion, it's what I and many of us have done but seeing your not sure if the hobby is right for you... does make it a tough call. I'd probably go FDM, yeah it's more of a headache but you can print massive stuff and also small stuff (just not the same detail as DLP) if you swap to a smaller nozzle like 0.2mm and swapping nozzles is simple or have a second hot end with a smaller nozzle and swap the whole thing ;).

    If you do go FDM (even DLP) on Thursdays from about 7am till around 2 - 4pm Nerys on Youtube does a stream so if your having problems it's a good place to go for help, also a good place to go to check out the Chinese printers, he doesn't bullshit and whine like MakersMuse, 3DPrintingNerd etc, he finds the problems and tells you how to fix them in great detail.

    Also if your going the Photon, check out the Anycubic Photon DLP Printer Owners Facebook group, lots of resources and helpful people on there. There's also quite a few Ender 3 Facebook pages as well, cant remember the "proper" one though.
     
    tangcla and iMomOx3 like this.
  6. iMomOx3

    iMomOx3 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,252
    This is good advice and I really appreciate it. Going the FDM route would mean some mods and maintenance here and there. Are the maintenance issues very common? Or just more notable because they're popular / been in use longer than DLP's and thus more problems have came up online?

    Lastly (probably not), but would the Ender 3 be a good starting point? It's cheap as hell, but it also gets a lot of attention for being notorious and frustrating. Looks like I'm close to narrowing it down to the CR-10 Mini...
     
  7. RyoSaeba

    RyoSaeba Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2001
    Messages:
    12,506
    Location:
    Perth
    You can get a Wanhao Duplicator D8 which basically will do large print and fine details. But obviously price is going to be an issue. Also printing large area with resin is going to be expensive too for material cost. Cheapest option is to simply buy both. I have both but I find that for what I have been using them for, the DLP get used a lot more. If you've only got budget for 1, get the DLP first since it's what you were looking for in the first place. Can always gets FDM printed by others in the other thread or just buy the FDM printer later.
     
    iMomOx3 likes this.
  8. OP
    OP
    Aussiejuggalo

    Aussiejuggalo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,628
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast Queensland
    Really you shouldn't need to do that much maintenance at all providing you build it correctly and keep it clean, things like belts, roller wheels etc will wear out over time but were talking thousands and thousands of hours unless you got dodgy parts. Nozzles will wear out over time as well and get crapped up but they cost next to nothing anyway.

    The Ender 3 is a good printer, it's biggest problem is the beds, if you get old stock like I did the bed will be 3mm thick the new ones I'm sure they started making them 4mm thick which means there thick enough to not be warped (hopefully) you can always put some glass on it though and that solves the warping issue, I personally didn't go that route, I got a friend to cut me a 6mm aluminium plate and I'll stick a silicone heater to it later :leet:.

    The Ender 3 Pro might be the better option, it's more expensive but comes with a Meanwell PSU, the flat yellow bed springs (or should), magnetic bed surface, it might still need TL-Smoothers and a few other things but other than that it's worth the money. The Ender 5 is an idiot proof printer in terms of building it but getting it could be a bit tricky, it's also more expensive.
     
    iMomOx3 likes this.
  9. iMomOx3

    iMomOx3 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,252
    Thanks for the responses RyoSaeba and Aussiejuggalo. I'll keep researching a bit more as I'm probably looking to make a purchase in about a month to save up a bit of side cash and see if I can hide this big unit from the missus :Pirate: or make it seem as if I've always had one and that she's crazy :leet:

    I'll probably be asking more questions here and there as I do more research but your insight has helped immensely. Whilst we're here, we need a thread to show off printed creations!
     
  10. RyoSaeba

    RyoSaeba Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2001
    Messages:
    12,506
    Location:
    Perth
    There are new resin being release that have no odour and doesn't require IPA washing. So it will lower the toxicity risk of using DLP printer.
     
  11. iMomOx3

    iMomOx3 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,252
    Hopefully this means a further decrease in costs for older models like the Photon 3D then :)
     
    RyoSaeba likes this.
  12. OP
    OP
    Aussiejuggalo

    Aussiejuggalo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,628
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast Queensland
    I'm waiting to see eSuns PLA resin, meant to be completely safe... could be interesting.

    On another note, got the new bed for my Ender 3, a 6mm thick aluminium plate.


    Click to view full size!


    Looks like a meathook abortion but it's perfectly flat.


    Click to view full size!


    Waiting on a new surface now which will hopefully be here this week, also changing the PSU to a 500w Meanwell one so it can handle a 300w silicone heater, I'll also be redoing all the cables from the ICE socket and PSU just in case :leet:.
     
  13. tumutbound

    tumutbound Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    333
    Location:
    Geeveston, Tasmania
    As my recently acquired Ender 5 is a replacement for a machine I haven't used in 18 months, and my stock of filament was the same age. It's been stored with silica gel but not in an air tight container.
    I decided to try my hand at drying it and not trusting the electric oven, built a dryer from a food dehydrator.
    While I haven't done what would be considered a controlled experiment, it does seem to work with the results pre and post drying, noticeably different.
    Food dehydrator was from Gumtree and the acrylic cover is a cake cover from a catering store. Coat about $45 all up. It gets to 70C (just) so is probably no good for ABS. It doesn't have a temperature control so I might add one but with a max of 70C , may not need it.
    It may just save me throwing out about 10 reels of PLA!
     

    Attached Files:

  14. iMomOx3

    iMomOx3 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,252
    Watching videos and reading reviews almost daily... such a big itch!

    I want it now but can't justify a big cost just yet. So little bits of cash here and there aside hah.
     
  15. thedealer

    thedealer Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2014
    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    Gold Coast, QLD
    Where did you buy your plate from?
     
  16. OP
    OP
    Aussiejuggalo

    Aussiejuggalo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,628
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast Queensland
    Friend cut it for me from some stock they had left at his work.

    Not sure if having it 6mm thick could be a bad thing for heating though, a lot of material to heat.
     
    thedealer likes this.
  17. Dreakoth

    Dreakoth Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2008
    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    Perth
    Background: I Built my own Reprap from a set of printed parts a nearly $1000 in hardware and driver boards etc like 5 years ago.
    Went through alot of the learning curve, since then i've played with a couple of printers at work.

    I just got a CR-20 (live in canada - amazon prime pretty cheap - under $400 i think)
    I was also looking at the recent cheap resin printers but at the end of the day - FDM is the way to go to learn ect - cheaper, more realistic part size and lets you print more functional stuff.

    IMO the CR20 is worth every cent, comes with everything you need (feature wise), works amazing out of the box (sample print was the best quality i've ever printed), a few issues here and there with temps and old filament but no issues that arn't easily googled and resolved.

    Just a general plug for Creality stuff, the CR-20 was perfect out of the box, all i've added is a glass plate - then also dont some mods with smoothers, dampers, noctua 40mm fans, just to make it quite - but prints perfect out of the box.
    Remember - small things can cause massive issues, you have to be patient and logical and methodical - don't blame the printer straight out a lot of the time its your own fault :p

    BUT - alot of the time you just print alot of useless knicknacks.. its hard to transistion your mindset to printing useful functional things... :p
     
  18. ir0nhide

    ir0nhide Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2003
    Messages:
    4,267
    Location:
    Adelaide
    It may take a while to heat but as long as the area is the same the temperature should be more stable (not that beds swing that much anyway with a proper PID tune). I'd be more concerned about the extra weight and whether it affects print speeds/introduces ringing.
     
  19. OP
    OP
    Aussiejuggalo

    Aussiejuggalo Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,628
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast Queensland
    The plate weighs about 1kg so basically the same as the stock bed with glass on it, it does vibrate a little by the sound of it, could be the table it's on though. I actually had some ringing before with the stock bed, not sure what cause it, guess I should print a test cube and see how that looks.

    Got the bed pretty much perfect although I'm having some problems with the back left corner, just cant seem to get it right but I'll tweak it again later.

    Now just waiting on the webcam for Octoprint, should be here today, might do some crappy timelapses and stick them on twitter (sxcnt1 for anyone interested).

    Edit, webcam turned up so now I see everything :leet:.


    Click to view full size!
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  20. tumutbound

    tumutbound Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    333
    Location:
    Geeveston, Tasmania
    After a bit of use of the Ender 5. I've found a few minor issues:
    • Bed is not flat. pretty close but enough that sometimes filament doesn't stick to the bed at the centre. I have a bl-touch to add which should fix this,
    • Bowden tube connectors are crap! Expecting a plastic sleeve to grip PTFE is bound to disappoint. Better quality fittings on order along with a replacement PTFE tube.
    • Very old version of Marlin. No bootloader on the controller so update is more of a pain than it should be. Adding a bootloader today pending the bl-touch installation.
    Delay in adding the bl-touch is that there are no brackets available via Thingiverse. Lots for the Ender 3 but they don't work with the Ender 5. I'm still learning Fusion 360 so designing my own could take a while.
    I bought a MKS Gen L V1 controller to replace the stock Melti based board, mostly so I can upgrade to TMC drivers. I also bought a touch screen for the MKS but bought the 3.2" one not the 2.4" one. As a result, it doesn't fit in the existing LCD panel :-(
    New, metal extruder parts arrived yesterday but wont fit those until I get the new Bowden fittings.
    All up, about $100 of upgrades so far (touch screen was $45)
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: