Cheap 3D Printers?

Discussion in 'Hobby Engineering' started by Aussiejuggalo, Apr 25, 2015.

  1. OP
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    Aussiejuggalo

    Aussiejuggalo Member

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    A PID tune should work regardless of firmware or control board as long as it's running Marlin, what I'd be worried about is the thermal runaway protection not being enabled, that's extremely dangerous if the thermistor is stuffed.
     
  2. cojcx

    cojcx Member

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    Sorry, I meant that resistance values (essentially) have to be inputted into Marlin for a different thermistor to work properly. I don't think a PID tune would sort this out because it's stopped working suddenly.
     
  3. OP
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    Aussiejuggalo

    Aussiejuggalo Member

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    Ah yeah, well if he got the same value, type, whatever you wanna call it of thermistor that's already in there then a PID tune should be all that's needed.

    Edit, also the Raspberry Pi 4 is out... massive upgrade compared to v3. Might grab the 4GB one and give Octoprint a test ;).
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  4. millen

    millen Member

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    Thanks for your help guys.,

    Will grab the Cocoon thermistor and give that a go.
    Had a quick look at how to PID tune yesterday. Not 100% sure how to do it yet.
    So just looking into all that now.

    3d printer noob on a journey... :D
     
  5. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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    Geeetech I3 PRO < $200 delivered, mine arrived yesterday.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Geeetec...port-5-filaments-Reprap-Prusa-I3/323825387455

    EDIT - Pi 4 biggest points are;

    Up to 4GB
    CPU increase is marginal as it goes from 1.3 to 1.5.
    IMO best upgrade is moving network off shared USB.
    USB being a PCIe device, more bandwidth, but not sharing with network should see a marked improvement for passing sensor data.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  6. OP
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    Aussiejuggalo

    Aussiejuggalo Member

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    PID tuning is easy.

    Run M303 E0 S200 C8. E is the extruder number, S is the temp, do it at a temp you normally print at, C is the amount of runs it'll do, the more runs the more accurate it'll be.

    Once it's done it'll spit out a PID value something like this: P40.00 I5.00 D60.00. Then do an M301 with the value (M301 PXX.XX IX.XX DXX.XX) that'll stick it in the firmware, then M500 to save it to the EEPROM and then an M503 to verify the value saved.

    So to sum up this is what you do:

    Code:
    M303 E0 S200 C8
    M301 PXX.XX IX.XX DXX.XX (value it spits out)
    M500
    M503
    You may or may not have a problem with M500, some firmwares lock that out if so stick it in your start GCode for your prints.
     
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  7. millen

    millen Member

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    Last edited: Jun 25, 2019
  8. cojcx

    cojcx Member

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    A PID tune deals with how the hotend is heated (like temperature overshoot when heating up or holding at a temperature), not the thermistor output temperature
     
  9. Ratzz

    Ratzz Member

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    I'd love to get into 3D printing, but from what I can see, there is literally NOTHING (at least, nothing affordable) that doesn't just unpack, plug in and print reliably?
    It seems, from what I read in this thread and others, that the first thing people do with their printers is start printing parts for their printers :lol:

    Are there in fact any plug and play printers that don't need messing with under say 2K? I get that they need to be levelled, that wouldn't be so onerous, but beyond that?

    Also, the print beds all seem so small. Does anything simple to set up and use exist that could print hmm say a 400mm cube? I'd guess those would be mega pricey, if they exist at all?
     
  10. CQGLHyperion

    CQGLHyperion Member

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    The aldi ones work out of the box. I bought the Model Maker which only lacks a heated bed and after following the leveling guide the first print had no issues.
     
  11. OP
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    Aussiejuggalo

    Aussiejuggalo Member

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    Plug and play no, wont ever happen. These printers are not like your standard inkjet printer they do require work, even the $10,000 Ultimakers will still break and require work, some of them wont even work out of the box like they say. When you buy an Ultimaker, Prusa, Flashforge, LulzBot etc your mostly paying for the support (especially in the case of Prusa). The support is good in a way, for instance if you work in and office and rely on printers then you can afford the support but for the home gamer unless you really really don't want to tinker and get your hands dirty (you probably don't really want a printer in that case) then it's more or less pointless and will in a way gimp you from fully understanding your printer.

    On the other hand you can get the cheap Chinese printers like Creality, Tevo, Anet etc, yes they will have problems and require a bit of work but in most cases they will work out of the box as long as you assemble them correctly. Support for these is also abundant, if you have issues you can come here or any of the Facebook groups. Nerys on Youtube is a really good channel for the Chinese printers, Creality in particular, he explains the issues and how to fix them pretty clearly and if you're really stuck you can Email him (Email is on his Youtube) or contact him on Twitter and he'll help as best he can, he's a pretty nice guy.

    As for big printers, well have you heard of the Creality CR-10S 500x500x500 $1565.64 for delivered or the new Creality CR-10 Max 450x450x470 for $1569.60 delivered. I wont say these printers are perfect because they aren't they do have issues but nothing to serious, as long as you take your time assembling them, check to make sure everything is square they'll work fine. Assembling them is pretty easy as well especially the CR-10 Max.

    The biggest issue you'll have isn't actually the printer it's self, printers now a days are more or less idiot proof as long as you assemble them correctly The biggest issue will be the slicer, you can spend weeks even months messing with a profile to get good prints, it's by far the biggest headache there is. I'll give you an example:

    I've been printing some Looney Tunes characters made by a modeller on MyMiniFactory by the name of Rober Rollin he makes some nice models, the models I've been having issues with is Road Runner and Wile E Coyote, the issue I've been having is the bodies of these models failing, these models are pretty small and would best be printed on my Anycubic Photon in resin but I don't want to do that because I know it's not the printer, my Ender 3 can print these easy, it's my slicer settings, I know my issue is the supports, I just haven't found the right settings for them yet so they'll stay stuck to the bed and the model without fully fusing or creating a really rough surface that I'll have do a heap of clean up on (I'm printing 0.12mm layer height & 30mm/s). I personally use supports that aren't very dense and are really close to the model, it's good in a way because I don't waste a lot of filament and have very little clean up, the problem is they can fail very easily especially at the smaller layer heights.

    The main thing about 3D printing is simply this, don't be afraid of the printer. You'll want to get to know it, learn how it works, learn the sounds it makes, like is that clicking coming from the extruder, does that mean it's jammed, is it a stepper having an issue or is it something else entirely, maybe a fan's bearing is on the way out? Learn how it feels, when you move the bed or print head is it smooth or does it stick in spots, are the belts to tight or to loose? It may be tempting to get a "plug and play" printer but as I've said it can gimp you when you inevitably run into an issue.
     
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  12. millen

    millen Member

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    So, worked out the thermistor is actually still OK, it was just that is had slightly moved out of it's tiny little housing hole and wasn't detecting the temp properly.
    I'm kind of done a work around holding solution which is working currently. Bu the way the thermistor is actually held in place on the machine seems like not the greatest design... Might try and work out a better solution.

    Tried a few test prints after getting the thermistor back in place, first few decided not to stick to the print bed. sigh.
    Resorted to a bit of glue stick and that worked really well... was hard to remove afterwards. Only trouble with that print was that the print nozzle decided to get caught on one part and ended up snapping off a leg of the figure I was printing... So perhaps the bed leveling did no go so well and it was a tiny bit off still. not sure.

    the joys of 3d printing trial and error hey...
     
  13. arytel

    arytel Member

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    Been looking at this thread for a while and looking at getting the ender 3, any recommended places to purchase for a good price?
     
  14. OP
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    Aussiejuggalo

    Aussiejuggalo Member

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    Is it the thermistor that's held in by the screw on the wires? If so then yeah, massive pain in the ass I hate them as well, a bit of Kapton tape or a silicone sock can help stop it from coming loose.

    With your bed tighten the springs down as much as you can (go slowly around the whole bed when doing this or you can warp the bed) then loosen them to make it level. Keeping the springs under tension will stop the bed from shifting during printing and when you move the printer around.

    As for levelling start with the paper method to get it roughly right and remember do it with the bed and hotend at temp otherwise it wont work well then do a small print like a Marvin but give it a skirt about 75% of your bed size, make it about 6 - 10 outlines wide (not layers) and do it slow, like 10 - 15mm/s, then as it's printing live adjust the springs to get it as level as you can. It should feel like fishing line if it's done right and you should be able to rub your finger without it lifting up.

    Aliexpress, Banggood, eBay, Gearbest check around for the cheapest price, some places will get you on shipping so be careful.

    Also are you going the Ender 3 or Ender 3 pro?
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  15. arytel

    arytel Member

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    :thumbup:
    I was looking at the Pro and the other addons recommended for improvement.
    Just waiting patiently for any sales that will drop the price under $300 if its possible.
     
  16. GumbyNoTalent

    GumbyNoTalent Member

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  17. OP
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    Aussiejuggalo

    Aussiejuggalo Member

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    Banggood is usually the one for flash sales, not sure I've ever seen it under $300 but maybe they'll have a sale again soon.

    Most of the bought addons aren't completely necessary but are useful, same with a lot of the printed ones, the Pro really doesn't need much modding realistically.
     
  18. tumutbound

    tumutbound Member

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    I booght my Ender 5 directly from Creality. Best price I could find at the time. Some others had the same price but the free shipping they offered, didn't include Tasmania :)
    Shipping from Creality was pretty quick. (Current price on an Ender 3 Pro is $A327)
     
  19. arytel

    arytel Member

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    This was next on my list. After that drying/reclaiming old filament.
    The print out of the box for the price was impressive, upgrades were for later if needed.
    I've a old reprap that needs upgrading, and 4 years ago I looked towards the extrusions that the ender uses but ran out of time due to work. I discovered those extrusions whilst making a gantry to shuttle 100-150kg over 4.5m, very cost effective. But with the price point of the new 3D printers its not worth upgrading the reprap.
     
  20. OP
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    Aussiejuggalo

    Aussiejuggalo Member

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    Drying filament is easy, cheap food dehydrator will do it, probably one with a digital readout just to be on the safe side. Yeah upgrading an old reprap is a bit pointless with the new Chinese printers, could always use the parts to build your own printer ;).

    An Ender 5 is a good option over an Ender 3 as well, much easier to assemble but does have a bigger foot print, not sure about over an Ender 3 Pro though.
     

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