1. If you're receiving a message that you are banned from the Current Events or Politics forums, it's not you specifically: those forums have been hidden for all users. For more info, see here.
    Dismiss Notice

Choice of Programming Language

Discussion in 'Programming & Software Development' started by gcflora, Jul 3, 2012.

?

Your Programming Language of Choice

  1. ASm

    2 vote(s)
    0.9%
  2. Ada

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. BASIC

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  4. BCPL

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. C

    19 vote(s)
    8.7%
  6. C#

    52 vote(s)
    23.9%
  7. C++

    25 vote(s)
    11.5%
  8. C++ (subset of)

    2 vote(s)
    0.9%
  9. COBOL

    2 vote(s)
    0.9%
  10. Erlang

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Forth

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. Fortran

    4 vote(s)
    1.8%
  13. Java

    18 vote(s)
    8.3%
  14. JavaScript

    9 vote(s)
    4.1%
  15. Lisp

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  16. Logo

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  17. Modula-2

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  18. Objective C

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  19. PHP

    38 vote(s)
    17.4%
  20. Pascal

    2 vote(s)
    0.9%
  21. Perl

    12 vote(s)
    5.5%
  22. Python

    20 vote(s)
    9.2%
  23. Ruby

    6 vote(s)
    2.8%
  24. SQL

    3 vote(s)
    1.4%
  25. Shell (Bash, ksh, csh, etc)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  26. TCL

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  27. Other.... (please comment)

    2 vote(s)
    0.9%
  1. OP
    OP
    gcflora

    gcflora Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2012
    Messages:
    665
    The difference between "procedural" languages and object-oriented is not that great a leap is it?

    Edit: mr626 I was not referring to you not getting it; i.e. not having a dig at you... it's just a general question, probably more aimed at foliage

    Haven't tried it myself, but those who use Lisp certainly seem to love it
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2012
  2. Soarer GT

    Soarer GT Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    2,884
    Location:
    Melbourne
    This.

    Having dealt with alot of .NET code / setups, The actual .Net site instance isnt so bad if it wasnt for the fact that everything around it was a piece of crap.

    .NET issues I've had to deal with in the last 18 months. (As a Network/Systems person, not as a .Net dev) :
    - The standard .NET library can not export more than one excel file at a time. What happens when more than 1 person uses the system? The export fails. Pay $400 for a .DLL file to allow multiple xls exports at a time from 1 instance.
    - Migrating from 1 server to another. Copy the files/database across. Still doesnt work. Dev : "Oh... you need to install this additional framework for it to work... it's only $1200 per server". WTFBBQ?
    - Same migration as above : The application only works with .Net 3.5 with patches x, y and z. it wont work with any other versioin. Me : "Shouldnt it be backwards compatible?". Dev : "yes. But it doesnt work".
    - More of an IIS gripe regarding SSL certs and multiple sites. The need to have apache running on a windows server to serve pages to IIS to serve requests to the .Net app.

    It shouldnt be this hard.
     
  3. Foliage

    Foliage Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Messages:
    32,083
    Location:
    Sleepwithyourdadelaide
    I think a lot of those problems are relevant to anyone using multiple libraries/frameworks.
     
  4. Soarer GT

    Soarer GT Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    2,884
    Location:
    Melbourne
    Which is why languages like PHP are so popular. They dont need so many frameworks to just get stuff working and you can find the issues with less hassle. Broken items are limited to 1 or 2 pages which is usually easy to see in the hierachy.

    .Net code doesnt work - Cant look at the compiled code on the server. Need to open the project/source. Dont have the source? Too bad, you fail.

    got source? Need Visual Studio to read/trace/check it.

    The cost of maintenance via time/software to actually review it vs notepad/vim. To get started on reviewing the software, you'd waste a day setting your environment up.

    I know I'm bashing on pre-compiled code (.Net / Java / etc ) but I've been in so many multi million dollar failed projects using those technologies its shameful. The two projects that have succeeded have been PHP based. Maybe php devs are better overall (understand the whole system rather than their components).

    Yes I do have a CS degree and have programmed in JAVA/C/C++/ADA/Perl/Python as well.
     
  5. Luke212

    Luke212 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,205
    Location:
    Sydney
    nearly all of the issues raised happen exclusively to shitty programming practices. its pointless to discuss the differences unless you are a rock star programmer, which most people on here are definitely not.
     
  6. Foliage

    Foliage Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Messages:
    32,083
    Location:
    Sleepwithyourdadelaide
    Sure but you are probably talking more about web orientated programming, what about building a small GUI application? Horses for courses.
     
  7. Cronox

    Cronox Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2003
    Messages:
    60
    Virtually all I use at work is VB and SQL. When I am mucking around in my own time I typically go for C#, mostly because I am used to working in visual studio and find it easier to write than vb.
     
  8. akashra

    akashra Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2003
    Messages:
    3,952
    Location:
    Melbourne, AU
    I am yet to find a programming language I'm totally happy with. Finding a language and framework is even harder. I'll give you an example:

    I like Java, I really do.
    But it lacks that simple ability to do define things like tables and structs quickly and rapidly like you could do in C.
    But in C, you make a small mistake with a pointer, and you end up blowing the whole thing up.
    Flex has a lovely UI system - its declarative UIs are incredibly fantastic. And its data binding, OMG, why the hell doesn't Java have both of these features by now!?
    Java's UIs are all round horrible to use. Ever tried to position and grow and object just how you want? It's horrible. WinForms isn't quite up there with Flex (IMO), but it's close. XWT is half way to what's needed, but still nowhere near close. And its Data binding is still way way away from where it needs to be.
    Edit: Where Flex seriously collapses is the inability to really, properly handle keystroke-driven applications and events.

    And Java's threading model... can we have a goddamn return value from Thread.wait already!? We're decades in to this technology and there's still actually no way to determine whether a thread was polled or the wait expired without guessing.

    But none of that gets away from the fact that you can write the code and run it almost everywhere, not caring whether your target is Windows, Linux, Mac, some kind of web platform and reuse the same code... that dwarves all these massive problems with the language.

    I tend to agree that PHP is great for simple, dirty "get it up and running NOW" webapps. But as soon as you move beyond something being a Webapp, it's no longer great.

    For desktop apps I similarly do like C#, but it just doesn't have that portability I require of projects.


    When someone finally releases an MXML-like spec that allows me to write a Java app that can be, without changes, exported to either a webapp or desktop app, I'll have a heart-attack.
    (Edit: And I don't mean Air. It has to have a native LaF).
    Until then, we're stuck with "okay, I can use Swing, but it'll look ugly and be impossble to position components how I want them, easily", or "SWT is nice, but equally complex" or "JFace makes me want to stab myself in the eye" or "GWT is great, but then it can only be a webapp"...
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2012
  9. Foliage

    Foliage Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Messages:
    32,083
    Location:
    Sleepwithyourdadelaide
    Silverlight is great, you can make controls in WPF that will work in a webbrowser etc, etc, IE only lol.

    If they could make C# multi platform it would absolutely dominate.
     
  10. akashra

    akashra Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2003
    Messages:
    3,952
    Location:
    Melbourne, AU
    Once upon a time, I tried to use .GNU and Mono.

    I'll never get that part of my life back.
     
  11. Luke212

    Luke212 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,205
    Location:
    Sydney
    yeah, i just know Mono is going to be like when my uncle touched me, so i dont even bother.
     
  12. akashra

    akashra Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2003
    Messages:
    3,952
    Location:
    Melbourne, AU
    Didn't think there was anything wrong with it at the time, but now that it's been explained to you it's evident how horribly, horribly wrong that was?
     
  13. antipody

    antipody Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2001
    Messages:
    5,039
    Location:
    Small World
    LOL (not sure if that's funny or disturbing, but I got a good laugh).

    I'm not much of a programmer, but I like tinkering with PHP/js for web stuff.

    Considering learning Python for Scipy and Numpy, as I don't intend to continue to pay for Matlab licensing and it seems like a useful language to know.
     
  14. seowebdesignmel

    seowebdesignmel New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2012
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Melbourne
    most web design programming languages :)
    but with software development, would have to say VB.NET and SQL for very simple tasks haha :D
    would like to try with C++ or C# or even JAVA for android applications.
     
  15. MrSmoke

    MrSmoke Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2008
    Messages:
    2,368
    Location:
    NSW, Blue Mtns NizzleBiX
    <3 PHP. Second would be Python (I havnt done much in it but I found it pretty nice to use)
     
  16. Gecko

    Gecko Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2004
    Messages:
    2,715
    Location:
    Sydney
    I'm surprised that Obj-C is sitting at zero at the moment. I would have thought that there would have been a few iOS devs around here.

    I'm starting to learn it now, don't know enough to make an informed judgement about it yet though.
     
  17. Foliage

    Foliage Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2002
    Messages:
    32,083
    Location:
    Sleepwithyourdadelaide
    You only use it because you have no choice was my impression. :p
     
  18. phreeky82

    phreeky82 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2002
    Messages:
    9,743
    Location:
    Qld
    Seeing as the poll is about familiarisation, I chose PHP. I've not used another language in a professional capacity even remotely as much, and due to being so familiar with PHP I've even used it for some scripts here and there where shell scripts would be more common (just for personal use normally).

    C I mostly use for microcontroller stuff, and that has been quite a bit lately. Very contrasting to PHP.

    It has been some time since I did any UI stuff. Last time was in .NET, as previous to that I did a LOT in VB and .NET was a bit of a natural progression. Last time I used Java it was many years ago and I can hardly recall the UI libraries used but things have probably changed by now - any recommendations/pointers? I really ought to do some if only to not get left too far behind while I work in a shitty job doing almost no coding.

    edit: I now feel inspired ;) Am currently looking at learning Qt for some GUI dev.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2012
  19. DarkYendor

    DarkYendor Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2008
    Messages:
    3,212
    Location:
    Perth
    It's pretty big. But once you understand OO, you'll wonder how it was ever a hard concept.

    That's part of why I like C#/C++/Objective-C. You can write procedurally when it makes sense, then use objects when it makes sense.
     
  20. Luke212

    Luke212 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2003
    Messages:
    10,205
    Location:
    Sydney
    using objects does not mean you are using OO. plenty of people do a Manager-DataStructure design and dont even realise its not OO (no encapsulation)
     

Share This Page

Advertisement: