Cisco Educational IOS Petition

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by nimmers, Jul 8, 2010.

  1. nimmers

    nimmers Member

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    http://etherealmind.com/petition/

    Pimping it here because I believe it would benefit a lot of people on here.
     
  2. underscore

    underscore Member

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    Hmm I'm not exactly sure what this petition is asking for.

    Don't Cisco run their own educational courses as part of their networking academy? I know that if you're in their networking academy you get access to their Packet Tracer software, which lets you get practice working in the cisco ios environment.

    The software on the virtual devices in packet tracer behaves pretty much the same as the real devices, just with stripped back features. So the software exists for people to practice on, you just have to be a part of the cisco networking academy.

    The petition pretty much just wants packet tracer for free, is that it?
     
  3. OP
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    nimmers

    nimmers Member

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    Sort of.

    Packet tracer is ok but not really good enough for production testing or any kind of study beyond CCNA.

    Most people use dynamips but with the latest IOS 15 it requires an activation code and won't run on anything using the architecture that dynamips emulates.

    I think partially he wants Cisco to acknowledge the contribution dynamips has had to their business. There are a lot of people who were able to gain their CCIEs using it and those people are now out in the industry advocating Cisco kit.

    As an example it helped me study for my CCIE and now working for a Cisco partner I use it on a daily basis to knock up proof of concepts for customers and to check the syntax of commands for documentation.

    Going forward it will mean for CCNP/CCIE study the only option to practice is going to be either build a rack of ISRG2 routers or rent rack time from a company that does that. Neither are really cheap or reasonable options.
     
  4. itsmydamnation

    itsmydamnation Member

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    yep its all about IOS 15.

    did you know you need the sec licence to do managemnet plane policing, how fucked up is that. if you want a router to do a non sec job but want to add another layer of secuirty to its network access you have to drop another $800 a router(thats for 29XX) :rolleyes: . jumping down to a 12.4T image resolves this :rolleyes: .
     
  5. evilasdeath

    evilasdeath Member

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    I really do think that cisco underestimates the use of dymamips for people studying. They wont see the affect of it for several years thou.

    I haven't used IOS 15 yet on any devices, but i would expect that for the most part the command set is the same just like every version prior. Learning on older IOS is only going to limit you for newer features not old ones.

    I think the pain of not using IOS 15 will become more apparent as IPv6 starts to get more widespread use as much of the IPv6 support is still changing or not supported on older platforms.
     
  6. malbert

    malbert Member

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    Not entirely correct; I run 7200s w/ 15.0(1)M2. 15.1T will not run on anything other than an ISR but the 7200 platform isn't EOL so I expect 15.1M to work on Dynamips.

    Besides, 12.4T does everything 15.1T can, except for a few obscure capabilities (LISP anyone?) that no one (I know of) uses. When it comes down to it, IOS 12.2 or 12.3 will probably teach you the fundamentals just as well.

    Perhaps in a few years we'll see a mass migration to JunOS which can easily be emulated.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2010
  7. OP
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    nimmers

    nimmers Member

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    Sure, were going to be fine for a while yet. But not forever.
     
  8. itsmydamnation

    itsmydamnation Member

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    i think juniper will be, they aren't in the markets to be exploited like cisco is.
     
  9. OP
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    nimmers

    nimmers Member

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    Anyone who is going to buy a counterfeit or build and run a hacked router aren't Cisco's current customer base anyway. And were only talking routers here not switches apart from the chisco 2900 and 3560s that were around a while back. The chisco ones were comming from cisco's factory being assembled off the clock by hand. From what I understand that has stopped.

    I really don't see the harm in releasing a fully featured IOS image with say the throughput cripled in some way.

    Certified people enable partners to sell and install gear. More certified people means more sales and more stuff being installed. Instead of worrying about people who aren't their customer base exploiting their IP they'd be better off pushing IOS to the people that sell and install their stuff IMO.
     
  10. Heywood

    Heywood Member

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    I imagine Cisco is more interested in capturing software licensing fees with regards to spares (plenty of people I know have bought IP-Base images on spares that use a higher level and transfer that image to the spare when needed) and the second hand equipment market

    I suppose they think they have enough momentum now that they need to wring more money....
     
  11. OP
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    nimmers

    nimmers Member

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    Yep thats more like it. I know of at least one integrator who does everything with second hand stuff from IPtrading. Whole networks, 100s of cisco routers and cisco doesn't make a cent off their deployment. Its not legal but cisco don't seem to care enough to shut them down, stuff like the IOS 15 licensing should help.

    But this is a different issue to IOS for educational purposes.

    This is the same thing I was talking about with the Chisco switches. From memory they were doing WICs and GBICs too. I had a couple of the counterfeit GLC-Ts and they were almost identical to real ones except the stickers were slightly wrong.

    Note that this was back in 2008 and you don't see this stuff on ebay anymore. It was all being made in Cisco's factory in China off the clock. Thats why we were only seeing low end stuff and not 65k type stuff.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2011
  12. Heywood

    Heywood Member

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    If I was the pope of Cisco, I would imagine that there would be a possibility for Cisco to generate a new revenue stream and call something like network evaluation as a service. Taking the rack-rental concept guys like INE and IPX use but giving the flexability of a GNS3 type interface - probably virtualised at lower levels going up to physical hardware and using Ixia test kit at the higher levels. Software licenses and features could be turned on and off as required.

    It removes the incompatibility issues that Dynamips has some niggly issues, brings in scaling (stops people complaining about BGP flapping if they don't have enough grunt on their simulator) provides Cisco some security of their IP as there is less of a reason for it to propagate - brings confidence to customers as they can validate a solution before they put in a purchase order, they don't have to travel to an integration lab or allocate rack/floor space - making it hopefully quick to stage and deploy in production, let alone the possibility to replicate your production network for troubleshooting or writing methods of procedure for complex operations.

    Idle capability could be rented out to the educational segment, Cisco could do CCIE lab exams in more places, and maybe introduce them into lower level certifications. Whether the pricing would be appropriate is another matter :)

    I guess the problem is that this kind of thing may make Channel Partners somewhat unhappy as it may cut some of their revenue capability.


    (I realise the second hand market is a different story to what is being discussed here but probably one of the main drivers towards introducing the right to use licensing model)
     
  13. Whisper

    Whisper Member

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    Wendell Odom and I discussed this years ago as well as LTD about the option of a IOS that only accepted private address space, as well as a few other configuration limits.

    This was ages ago, but nothing came of it.

    I think itsmydamnation was part of that conversation as well.

    It's a shame really, as you would think as others seem to here, that the more Cisco certified people that exist, the more Cisco hardware and IOS licenses that would be sold.

    I'd really love to hear the rationale for not doing it, other than it is technically difficult, if that is in fact the reason.
     
  14. itsmydamnation

    itsmydamnation Member

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    its all about meeting the training number right.......
     
  15. FiShy

    FiShy Member

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    Yep, we are a partner and we are going through the whole you need more certified people bs again.
     
  16. OP
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    nimmers

    nimmers Member

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    Rack rentals are another way to generate revenue.

    I suspect this is close to the mark.
     
  17. FiShy

    FiShy Member

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    The clocks on cisco hardware already are shit.... lol virtual ones would be horrid!
     

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