Complicated Parallel loop, need opinions

Discussion in 'Extreme and Water Cooling' started by Chardiieee, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. Chardiieee

    Chardiieee Member

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    Hi guys

    I posted this one on my go-to facebook tech group but no one was really sure if it would work or not. So i need the assistance of some experts.

    The pump powering the water flow is a relatively new EK Revo D5 at full speed.

    Im also considering doing hard-line for the two pillars, and then soft tubing to the blocks. Just aiming for something unique.

    I know the picture is crude but it should get the idea across.


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  2. _slacker_

    _slacker_ Member

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    yes it will work. Thats just the same setup as about a hundred thousand SLi/XFire setups across the planet have.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. spud42

    spud42 Member

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    interesting...
    as long as the loop is closed and bled properly it will work. Now the question is how efficient it will be. You are splitting the flow into 4 paths. the amount of flow will be different in each path depending on the flow resistance in the blocks used. With the GPU being the last one the question will be does it get enough flow to stay at reasonable temps?
    are 3 240mm rads needed ? that is also a lot of rad to push water through... but i am no expert so i am interested to see what others think.
     
  4. OP
    OP
    Chardiieee

    Chardiieee Member

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    Yes however mine does involve two extra blocks

    Also if anyone hasnt realised yet, it would take roughly 30 fittings and 6 t-junctions, which is roughly 400 bucks worth of EK brand fittings. I could get Barrow fittings for about 150 bucks less but am unsure of the quality difference
     
  5. OP
    OP
    Chardiieee

    Chardiieee Member

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    Flow and pressure are the key points here, I am completely unsure about how it will work. I dont know if it would evenly be distributed on the inlet side, or if the higher block flow on some blocks would steal from the GPU flow to the point of stagnation.

    My assumption at this point is if the bottom inlet of the intake pillar immediately receives the flow from the pump in an upwards direction, it should flow upwards enough to reach the GPU with decent flow - because travelling straight upwards directly seems like it would be an easier flow path rather than taking a 90 degree turn.

    Regarding the radiators, I feel like it is necessary. I am overclocking both the CPU and GPU, and the added heat of the blocks (especially the VRM) will contribute a fair amount of heat. I am also aiming for silence, so having more rad space with less fan speed should even out.
     
  6. _slacker_

    _slacker_ Member

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    shamelessly stolen from EKWB's site :


    [​IMG]
     
  7. OP
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    Chardiieee

    Chardiieee Member

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    This is what I thought, however because the example is using matching blocks, people are claiming (elsewhere) that this is likely the only scenario where this rule applies.
     
  8. straiton

    straiton Member

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    because your flow is split, you can't be sure water will go where you want.Depends how restrictive each block is.
    Water, like electricity, will take the path of least resistance

    May need flow restrictors(eg. small tube) to VRM and PCH to make the bulk of the flow go to GPU and/or CPU
     
  9. OP
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    Chardiieee

    Chardiieee Member

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    I said this on the facebook group post I made prior to this one:

    it would be cool if a sponsor could provide the parts so that I can test this, because I dont want to spend $400 bucks on a failed experiment.

    I mean, I probably could use all those extra fittings for something else, or sell them at a loss, but ideally this would actually work and be worth the cost.
     
  10. _slacker_

    _slacker_ Member

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    man run 2 d5s in serial and the loop in parallel and you wont have any worries ever.

    I am a little hazy atm so dont know how to express it properly but say you got 3 things :

    Fast
    Cheap
    Reliable

    You can only ever have 2 of those things. i.e fast and reliable isnt cheap. Cheap and reliable isnt fast etc.

    You with one pump will lose a little pressure and hence flow rates suffer. If you eliminate the pressure problem you will have the flow. While that saying above is true that water will take the path of least resistance, you will be applying equal pressure to all 3 gpu blocks. GPUs really dont need huge amount of water to be tamed.

    Its really not hugely important, no leaks is waaaaaay more important :lol:


    No-one will sponsor you because its been done to death, the romans understood fluid dynamics...
     
  11. spud42

    spud42 Member

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    thats what i said and thought...
    now i do like the idea of restricting flow to the motherboard blocks seeing as they are first in the vertical distribution pipe. say make those 10mm pipe and the GPU/CPU pipes 13mm. this would probably even out the flow more or possibly bias it to the CPU/GPU blocks.
    slackers idea of 2 pumps could work too. add it between the vertical outlet pipe and the first rad... room may be an issue i just realised thats where the PSU goes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  12. _slacker_

    _slacker_ Member

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    I was meaning something along ther lines of this type pump arrangement ...

    https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-xtop-revo-dual-d5-pwm-serial
     
  13. desertstalker

    desertstalker Member

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    IMO series config is going to be simpler and deliver similar performance (better likely if all your water goes through the VRM/RAM sinks).

    As has been stated putting things in parallel will cause uneven flow rates and since CPU/GPU blocks are the most restrictive they will get the least flow (the opposite of what you want).
     
  14. _slacker_

    _slacker_ Member

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    what case you got Chardiieee?
     
  15. OP
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    Chardiieee

    Chardiieee Member

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    its exactly as designed, a TJ07, inverted like this. I even used the RIVBE board Im doing this with. Its accurate and to scale. Roughly.
     
  16. OP
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    Chardiieee

    Chardiieee Member

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    I am just trying to minimise the cost impact. I might be able to get away with the compression hardline fittings from Barrow, but I could use second opinions. I was not cheaping out entirely by going non-compression, but 250 in fittings from Barrow beats 350 in fittings from EK, and if they 'perform' the same then why not? 100 bucks pays for T-fittings and pass-throughs.



    Like I said, cost is a factor.

    I understand how overkill flow -might- overcome the lack of flow as it goes up the chain here, but Im not really clear on how two pumps next to each other in serial is going to help (when I already have a fairly decent D5 at full speed).
    Id understand using a booster pump halfway in the loop might help, but this doesnt seem applicable here...

    The inlet pillar in the diagram is already the first obstacle in front of the pump, so IDK if it can get much better besides having an entirely better pump, not just two pumps going at the same speed. That seems more like a RAID 1 than a RAID 0 if you know what I mean.

    The only reason Id want 'sponsorship' (aka borrowing spare parts) is to see if this unique experiment would even work. I feel like a loop design as complex as this would benefit from a fair amount of parts AND testing, using decent flow meters and such to get some tangible evidence of the loop performance. Its not just so that I could have a flashy build and not pay for it.

    It could provide valuable information for future builds which have similarly complex loops. Imagine if someone (me in the future, HA!) did a similar build, but with dual RAM blocks as well? What if there was another graphics card on top of that too?

    Id love to conduct a full round of testing with different pumps and variables to obtain results that can stop the guessing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  17. OP
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    Chardiieee

    Chardiieee Member

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    I feel like we should remember that a decent amount of flow in each block is entirely acceptable. It doesnt have to be exactly as good as the most optimal / efficient setup, as if it was done in serial or whatever.

    If I lost a small amount of flow and minimal temp difference (compared to the best case scenario) then isnt it still worth it for something entirely unique? I know the cost is higher, but isnt that the consequence of all aesthetic choices?
     
  18. _slacker_

    _slacker_ Member

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    This is what Im trying to say, just do it as you picture it and it will definately work. I didnt mean either that Barrow are like cheap shit, they are a great fitting for the money, I just meant that if we all had like no budgets then how we do things would probably be inline with whats the absolute best we can run.

    I spec out hydraulic fitups for trucks and so I do have a vague idea what im talking about :lol:

    Im not here to discourage you, infact quite the opposite but you do need to listen to people who have done this before, there is no need for you to be a pioneer, that happened ages ago. All you will be doing is building on someone elses experience for your own benefit. procooling forums are a good place to go have a read if your interested in learning about pressure and flow and how they affect temps.

    I also wasnt implying you just want free swag. But like the picture I posted before, thasts from EKWB, they have doen what you are saying is a maybe. They have pics to prove it :lol: So the biggest ( arguably ) manufacturer says its quite an acceptable fashion to do so just go for it bro.

    If your interested in trialling some shit give me a PM and I'll loan you some gear for a month. Have a cpl of spare rads here and some pumps and res's's's's'ssss. they wont be in use for a while so if you want to science then yell out :p:thumbup:



    Do you have blocks yet?
     
  19. havabeer

    havabeer Member

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    Hardest part about testing t (accurately) is you would need a hand full of flow meters to show just how much of a temp difference it makes.

    Yes you could just build the loop in parallel measure temps, and then rebuild in serial and measure temps and see which is better, but it would be interesting to see just how much flow drops in either case

    Really I though it wouldn't make stuff all of a difference being a closed loop system, as all the loses are seen over the entire system and not per block
     
  20. ^catalyst

    ^catalyst Member

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    Overthinking it, do it in series, enjoy computer. You are not going to discover a magical loop configuration that gives you sub ambient or some shit. Also spending that much on fittings is clearly ridiculous.
     

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