Concerns about Data Retention, Surveillance and Privacy

Discussion in 'Networking, Telephony & Internet' started by Agg, Jul 18, 2012.

  1. chip

    chip Member

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    There's probably only about 11 people left in State Government IT in Qld by now.
     
  2. SilentLeges

    SilentLeges New Member

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  3. remin

    remin Member

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    Make ppl realise that the underlying message of Continuum is actually happening?
    Honestly I don't think that its possible for people to understand. In Australia the majority are the kind of people that watch today tonight and think it's good journalism...

    Either way, ssh tunnel's, use em.
    Also IACSecurity, you win 100's of interwebz for mentioning Hak5 :p
     
  4. Linkin

    Linkin Member

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    Emailed with a modified version of the email that craig posted up...
     
  5. gaakor

    gaakor Member

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    The problem with that strategy is that it is quite defeatist, kind of like ignoring the problem.

    The only useful way to defeat something like this is petitions, public protest even if just on Twitter, calling & emailing MPs & submitting to the senate enquiry why this is a dumb idea.

    If not, its possible in the future that encrypted VPNs may become illegal, same with SSH.

    As you probably know a similar situation is underway in India.

    Its easy to detect an encrypted TCP connection from the ISP, and disconnect the customer or since it will be stored as evidence it could be used to charge you wi breaking this new law theyre talking about.

    So I urge everyone to just call your MP and email the senate enquiry it will only take 15 minutes & time is running out!
     
  6. IACSecurity

    IACSecurity Member

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    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
  7. remin

    remin Member

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  8. gaakor

    gaakor Member

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    This story made ABC's 7:30 last night, very well done.

    http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/979986

    It's August so submissions to the Senate Committee will be closing soon, I believe on the 8th?

    So make you hurry up and tell them why all of these proposals are a terrible idea.
     
  9. broccoli

    broccoli Member

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    Soccer mum on the 7:30 report segment:
    "It's like an invitation, isn't it?"

    If she can see it, let's hope the pollies can....
     
  10. gaakor

    gaakor Member

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    This story made ABC's 7:30 last night, very well done.

    http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/979986

    It's August so submissions to the Senate Committee will be closing soon, I believe on the 8th?

    So make you hurry up and tell them why all of these proposals are a terrible idea.

    Repost for new page
     
  11. Sunder

    Sunder Member

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    You do realise that ISPs already store this data, right? And some of them for more than 2 years anyway?

    It's just codifying it in law that's the issue.

    To me, the AAPT hack doesn't show me that the proposed legislation is dangerous. It shows me that:

    1. Anon is willing to take out innocent victims (The users of AAPT) to try to gain their preference. (And that's all it is, it's not a legitimate form of protest any more than punching someone walking outside the front of parliament house is a legitimate form of protest. Sure it gets attention, but what point does it prove?)

    2. AAPT's security is lax - but probably no more so than any other ISP

    3. That maybe like APRA regulates Information Security for banks, maybe we need a licensing system for internet service providers. Nobody minds that every bank transaction is kept for 7 years. What if you didn't want someone knowing that you bought something from "Bob's transexual dress up shop"? Why aren't we protesting that banks - who have been repeatedly hacked into - are forced by law to keep records for 7 years? Wait - in fact, I believe if we hadn't done so in the past and it was proposed now, many privacy advocates and Anonymous would.

    That's all it is folks - it's a change. And people are scared of change. I can already go to Vodafone and get a list of every call I've made in the last 2 years. When I got hit with some very high IP roaming charges, I asked if I could find out which IP address/domain name that it went to - they told me the could only give it to me with a court order due to privacy. By implication that means that data is stored.

    This is a storm in a tea cup. The data is already collected and stored by your ISP - The police are just asking for it to be kept, and a formal process created, obligating them to hand it over.
     
  12. broccoli

    broccoli Member

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    No, people who have lived in a democracy with certain freedoms don't want it and them removed and replaced with totalitarianism.
     
  13. Sunder

    Sunder Member

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    So, right now, police can go to Vodafone and ask them for the call logs of my phone.

    Once these laws are in place, police can... go to Vodafone and ask them for the call logs of my phone.

    How is your freedom being removed? The only freedom being removed, is Vodafone is now no longer free to delete those records after they receive payment from me - which they don't anyway.

    What you had was an illusion of privacy. That illusion has to be shattered - Either now, when Anonymous proved they can get that kind of data BEFORE the legislation came in, or after, when you know without a doubt that companies are keeping that information.
     
  14. broccoli

    broccoli Member

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    No, they can't.

    Democratic freedoms aren't "an illusion of privacy". No, my rights do not need to be taken from me. Totalitarianism is not a desirable goal.
     
  15. Sunder

    Sunder Member

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    *sigh*

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/tr...00-phone-records/story-fnat7jnn-1226351366436

    I can see why you and so many others are up in arms. As I said, you're under an illusion, and your illusion is being taken away. You're fighting being disillusioned. That's not a joke. You thought police couldn't get your records. They can, and they can without judge or magistrate being involved.
     
  16. broccoli

    broccoli Member

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    No. I don't live in Victoria.

    I am under no illusion. I know that the clueless, the naive and those who have no understanding that the freedoms they have didn't just come to them because they are "special" are just going to ignore them being removed while thinking that their existence will remain the same. I'm glad that I'll be dead and won't have to live with it.
     
  17. Sunder

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    Can't find the equivalent laws in W.A., so I can't refute you on that one, though I admit not every state is as lax. However, most of them only require a reason, and the body that approves it, is not always a magistrate. In NSW for example, they just go to the administrative appeals tribunal, and in some circumstances, it requires no more than a phone call.

    The reason can be very trivial, no requirement of proof of criminality, no probable cause. The reason can be as little as someone else has filed a missing persons report on you, or you were called - even once - by someone who is under investigation.

    You keep talking about your freedoms, or your descendants freedoms being taken away from you. I'd like to point out that there are two types of freedom. The freedom from, and the freedom to, and these are opposed. The freedom to speak my mind, undermines my freedom from hearing offensive and hateful speech.

    My freedom to remain anonymous undermines to my freedom from crime.

    Maybe as I work with law enforcement a fair bit in my job, I have a higher respect and trust of them. I'm happy to give away some of my freedom to - freedoms I don't even believe I have now anyway (Hey, if I was a customer of AAPT, how is my freedom to remain anonymous now?) - to gain more freedom from undesirable things.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2012
  18. broccoli

    broccoli Member

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    and that's the problem. You don't even understand what it is that you'll be giving up.
     
  19. Sunder

    Sunder Member

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    And we're back to square one. I gave up the illusion that my data is safe, when I started working in IT Security.

    Right now, at any time, without my knowledge or consent, police or a hacker can gain access to my information.

    New legislation won't change that.
     
  20. broccoli

    broccoli Member

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    Oh, ok, when did the law change and what specific provision of what Act authorises police officers to sign off on interception warrants in Western Australia without judicial approval?
     

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